4 ms·

The dichotomy for people earning high incomes, but viewing themselves as "average", stems from the fact that you need to be in the top 5% of income if you want

The dichotomy for people earning high incomes, but viewing themselves as "average", stems from the fact that you need to be in the top 5% of income if you want to live a stereotypical 50's style "middle class" life in a high-cost of living area: a (modest) single family home, a car, 2 kids, health care, children's college paid for, saving for retirement, etc. All of the above were easily had back then on the median income. Everyone lower than you on the income curve is cutting in places you can't see (retirement accounts). If you observe conspicuous consumption by peers making less, they're going deep into debt to make it happen. The only thing not 1950's about our middle class ideals: your spouse probably works to make ends meet.

ac29 7y ago
According the to the linked site, the top 5% income in the Silicon Valley area, probably the highest cost of living area in the US, is over $500k. Yes, all of the things you mention are getting more expensive, and median incomes would certainly be difficult (median for the same area is $133k). But, top 5%? At that income level, you can have all of the things you mention and still retire very comfortably by 40.
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
  > the top 5% income in the Silicon Valley area, probably the highest cost of living area in the US, is over $500k That's household income, aged 35-64 (prime earning years). For the same age, top 5% individual income is $332k. Top 5% individual income for ages 18-34 is $179k. Most couples earning $500k at ages 35-64 weren't likely earning that much earlier in their career, so it's hard to say retiring "very comfortably" by 40 would be the case.
lm28469 7y ago
We also have much more shit to spend our money on. Phones, computers, streaming services, ride sharing, food delivery, shit delivered right to your door in 2 hours by Bezos & co, &c. Young people live like there is no tomorrow and then complain they can't save money, yeah dude if you take an uber every 2 days, get food delivered every day, get your daily $12 frappudingus from starbucks, spend 250 a months on various subscription services and want to follow your favorite instagram influencer during his vacation you'll have a hard time saving money. If you're healthy and working in a first world country (US excluded) you should be able to live comfortably. Don't have kids before 25, don't have kids without having a plan, don't buy a fucking iphone on credit, no, you don't _need_ that 65" TV.
- helen___keller 7y ago
  Thanks for the condescending remark but in some places it's demonstrably more difficult for young people. I've been worried about the fact that property values near the T in boston have literally doubled over the past 8 years and I'm being left behind as prices bubble out of control, meanwhile adding a bedroom for a future child is going to be another $1000 a month in rent, but okay let's talk about that hulu subscription and the one time I got GrubHub this month
  - asark 7y ago
    Yeah, Netflix ain't the problem. Even $100 in coffee budget a month ain't the problem, as long as that's not one of several $100/mo unnecessary budget items. Health care, housing somewhere with non-shit schools, child care (when young, or after school care, or summer care), those are the biggies. Food not up in that category but high, even if you spend quite a bit of time cooking yourself and rarely dine out. Utilities next. Clothing somewhere under that unless you just have to buy all your kids' clothes new, and maybe by the time you're that far down the spending ladder you've found an item that's rivaled by "frivolous" spending. Phone bill's probably down around here somewhere, too. Oh boy, I spend zero on entertainment or other unnecessary stuff so my spending dropped perhaps 5%/mo. Great. I'm only miserable and hate life is all, but great.
    - lm28469 7y ago
      Hence you should plan _before_ having a kid. Invest 2k a year for 10 years and you'll have 25k+ to handle child care (or taking time off to actually take care of the little human you brought in this world). As for child care, health care, retirement and school I'm genuinely sorry for you but you're paying the price of america's vision of capitalism. > Even $100 in coffee budget a month ain't the problem $100 a month invested over 30 or 40 years is quite the money for most people. > I'm only miserable and hate life is all, but great. Listening to you two we're miserable anyway, at least now you have some money. But seriously, how did people live before the 80s without all these form of entertainment and useless gadgets ?
jriot 7y ago
My personal income is in the top 5% of where I live but since my wife is a stay-at-home mother we are in the top 15% for household income. Granted next year when I move up an age bracket we move down to the top 15% for individual income and 25-30% for household income. Given that we very much have a 1950s lifestyle, modest single-family home ($348k, 4 bedrooms/2 bathrooms as I work from home, on a half acre with no restrictions), 2 kids, health-care, and saving for retirement. We are down to 1 car as we recently moved across the country but since I work from home we are seeing if one car will work; it would if there we more sidewalks but ditches seem to take up that space.

ac29 7y ago

According the to the linked site, the top 5% income in the Silicon Valley area, probably the highest cost of living area in the US, is over $500k. Yes, all of the things you mention are getting more expensive, and median incomes would certainly be difficult (median for the same area is $133k). But, top 5%? At that income level, you can have all of the things you mention and still retire very comfortably by 40.

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
> the top 5% income in the Silicon Valley area, probably the highest cost of living area in the US, is over $500k That's household income, aged 35-64 (prime earning years). For the same age, top 5% individual income is $332k. Top 5% individual income for ages 18-34 is $179k. Most couples earning $500k at ages 35-64 weren't likely earning that much earlier in their career, so it's hard to say retiring "very comfortably" by 40 would be the case.

lm28469 7y ago

We also have much more shit to spend our money on. Phones, computers, streaming services, ride sharing, food delivery, shit delivered right to your door in 2 hours by Bezos & co, &c. Young people live like there is no tomorrow and then complain they can't save money, yeah dude if you take an uber every 2 days, get food delivered every day, get your daily $12 frappudingus from starbucks, spend 250 a months on various subscription services and want to follow your favorite instagram influencer during his vacation you'll have a hard time saving money. If you're healthy and working in a first world country (US excluded) you should be able to live comfortably. Don't have kids before 25, don't have kids without having a plan, don't buy a fucking iphone on credit, no, you don't _need_ that 65" TV.

helen___keller 7y ago
Thanks for the condescending remark but in some places it's demonstrably more difficult for young people. I've been worried about the fact that property values near the T in boston have literally doubled over the past 8 years and I'm being left behind as prices bubble out of control, meanwhile adding a bedroom for a future child is going to be another $1000 a month in rent, but okay let's talk about that hulu subscription and the one time I got GrubHub this month
- asark 7y ago
  Yeah, Netflix ain't the problem. Even $100 in coffee budget a month ain't the problem, as long as that's not one of several $100/mo unnecessary budget items. Health care, housing somewhere with non-shit schools, child care (when young, or after school care, or summer care), those are the biggies. Food not up in that category but high, even if you spend quite a bit of time cooking yourself and rarely dine out. Utilities next. Clothing somewhere under that unless you just have to buy all your kids' clothes new, and maybe by the time you're that far down the spending ladder you've found an item that's rivaled by "frivolous" spending. Phone bill's probably down around here somewhere, too. Oh boy, I spend zero on entertainment or other unnecessary stuff so my spending dropped perhaps 5%/mo. Great. I'm only miserable and hate life is all, but great.
  - lm28469 7y ago
    Hence you should plan _before_ having a kid. Invest 2k a year for 10 years and you'll have 25k+ to handle child care (or taking time off to actually take care of the little human you brought in this world). As for child care, health care, retirement and school I'm genuinely sorry for you but you're paying the price of america's vision of capitalism. > Even $100 in coffee budget a month ain't the problem $100 a month invested over 30 or 40 years is quite the money for most people. > I'm only miserable and hate life is all, but great. Listening to you two we're miserable anyway, at least now you have some money. But seriously, how did people live before the 80s without all these form of entertainment and useless gadgets ?

jriot 7y ago

My personal income is in the top 5% of where I live but since my wife is a stay-at-home mother we are in the top 15% for household income. Granted next year when I move up an age bracket we move down to the top 15% for individual income and 25-30% for household income. Given that we very much have a 1950s lifestyle, modest single-family home ($348k, 4 bedrooms/2 bathrooms as I work from home, on a half acre with no restrictions), 2 kids, health-care, and saving for retirement. We are down to 1 car as we recently moved across the country but since I work from home we are seeing if one car will work; it would if there we more sidewalks but ditches seem to take up that space.