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This tool is important because it makes clear one of the biggest problems in America: the rich refuse to believe they are rich. In Europe, top income tax rates

by harryh 7y ago

This tool is important because it makes clear one of the biggest problems in America: the rich refuse to believe they are rich. In Europe, top income tax rates kick in at far lower incomes often just 2-3X the median income. The additional tax revenues generated here are used to fund things like national health care. Similar programs will never be possible in the US unless more Americans come to the realization that they are, in fact, rich and deserved to be taxed as such.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
As an American, if I didn't have to worry about healthcare expenses for me and my family, then I would place my idea of rich at a much lower threshold. But because there is no safety net, everyone has to accumulate that much more to have security and peace of mind.
- harryh 7y ago
  I definitely agree that path dependency issues are deeply connected to this problem.
arcticbull 7y ago
Welcome to America where the rich believe they're middle class, and the poor believe they're middle class too.
atemerev 7y ago
With around $130k/year in Switzerland, I am not rich, by any margin. Also, being rich is not about beating 99% people in monetary income. Being rich is about being able to live without toiling.
qes 7y ago
You know what realization I've come to? That an _actual_ rich person can light 10 years of my quite substantial salary on fire and not be affected in any way whatsoever.
sidlls 7y ago
The tool is next to useless because it conflates income with wealth and, worse, it doesn't distinguish between income earned from work (e.g. salary) and income earned from assets (e.g. rents, equities). Aside from that, it has other flaws. For example, I'd classify myself as "rich" by the (flawed) measure of household income used by the survey--but because I overestimated the percentile range my household income is in the survey result indicated I thought I wasn't rich.
rjkennedy98 7y ago
But it doesn't really. I come out as rich on the scale as me and my partner earn over > 270K together, but we wake up at 5:30 work in the morning and get back to our 1 bedroom apartment at 5:30 at night, where we make dinner and go to bed at 9pm. We try to save every penny we can. We have healthy retirement accounts, but we still don't have enough job or financial security to buy a house (we live in Boston). So yes, in many ways we are rich and certainly we are better off than many. But, compare that to my mom who is almost 70 and about to retire. She has 3 million + in assets including passive income > 150K a year (before a pension and social security) with hardly any expenses. We both come out rich, but we are lightyears apart. She lives in complete comfort as she watches her California home go from 1.2 million to 1.6 million in value in the last few years, in some years hardly paying any taxes due to "depreciation".
- harryh 7y ago
  And if we want a welfare state as robust as the one in Europe you can't just have people like your mom pay for it. There aren't enough like her. You've got to pay in to. Like they do in Europe. Your choice.
- sn9 7y ago
  You're in the top 5% for your area but you can't afford a house? Most of the home owners in your area make less than you. There's definitely something you're not telling us.

by harryh 7y ago

lotsofpulp 7y ago

As an American, if I didn't have to worry about healthcare expenses for me and my family, then I would place my idea of rich at a much lower threshold. But because there is no safety net, everyone has to accumulate that much more to have security and peace of mind.

harryh 7y ago
I definitely agree that path dependency issues are deeply connected to this problem.

arcticbull 7y ago

Welcome to America where the rich believe they're middle class, and the poor believe they're middle class too.

atemerev 7y ago

With around $130k/year in Switzerland, I am not rich, by any margin. Also, being rich is not about beating 99% people in monetary income. Being rich is about being able to live without toiling.

qes 7y ago

You know what realization I've come to? That an _actual_ rich person can light 10 years of my quite substantial salary on fire and not be affected in any way whatsoever.

sidlls 7y ago

The tool is next to useless because it conflates income with wealth and, worse, it doesn't distinguish between income earned from work (e.g. salary) and income earned from assets (e.g. rents, equities). Aside from that, it has other flaws. For example, I'd classify myself as "rich" by the (flawed) measure of household income used by the survey--but because I overestimated the percentile range my household income is in the survey result indicated I thought I wasn't rich.

rjkennedy98 7y ago

But it doesn't really. I come out as rich on the scale as me and my partner earn over > 270K together, but we wake up at 5:30 work in the morning and get back to our 1 bedroom apartment at 5:30 at night, where we make dinner and go to bed at 9pm. We try to save every penny we can. We have healthy retirement accounts, but we still don't have enough job or financial security to buy a house (we live in Boston). So yes, in many ways we are rich and certainly we are better off than many. But, compare that to my mom who is almost 70 and about to retire. She has 3 million + in assets including passive income > 150K a year (before a pension and social security) with hardly any expenses. We both come out rich, but we are lightyears apart. She lives in complete comfort as she watches her California home go from 1.2 million to 1.6 million in value in the last few years, in some years hardly paying any taxes due to "depreciation".

harryh 7y ago
And if we want a welfare state as robust as the one in Europe you can't just have people like your mom pay for it. There aren't enough like her. You've got to pay in to. Like they do in Europe. Your choice.
sn9 7y ago
You're in the top 5% for your area but you can't afford a house? Most of the home owners in your area make less than you. There's definitely something you're not telling us.