4 ms·

15 years is not UBI. If you can’t rely on it being around for the rest of your life it would be insane to leave your career to live on UBI.

belltaco 7y ago
I don't the point of UBI is for everyone to leave their careers. If anything, it's the opposite.
- godelski 7y ago
  Which is exactly why UBI is generally suggested to give below the poverty line. Enough to survive but not enough to be comfortable. Enough to get you through downturns but not enough where you'll abandon a well paying job.
  - giarc 7y ago
    I believe it was Andrew Yang who talked about UBI on Recode podcast recently. He also talked about UBI giving people the freedom to try something new. You may be more likely to start a business if you knew you had something to fall back on. This might be especially beneficial in the rural areas of America where $1000/month will support you longer than in urban centres.
  - buboard 7y ago
    Which is why i can't fathom why every business would not raise their prices to match the UBI minimum. I mean it's not like there would be anyone who can't afford that.
    - godelski 7y ago
      Because UBI could open their market to more people. If they can make the same profit per person but increase their market size, why raise prices? That prices out more people. In fact this is commonly done now. You sell at a competitive price to expand your market share. It's exactly the tactic of companies like Amazon and Walmart. The problem is if a company has a monopoly and the good is a necessity.
      - buboard 7y ago
        > If they can make the same profit per person but increase their market size, why raise prices There is no dichotomy here- their market size increases magically with UBI. If the answer to that question was even remotely close to yes, the tech sector would be full of hungry workers.
  - deegles 7y ago
    UBI has to be universal in order to avoid it being stigmatized as a "poor people thing".
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
godelski 7y ago
Like I said, this would be a good experiment. You can rely on it for at least a decade and that's further ahead than most people think. But that's also assuming the fund doesn't grow. Which it will. And it UBI works then there is absolutely no reason to think this fund won't get bigger. But saying we can't try because this can only fund 15 years is kind of an obtuse statement. Indefinite finding requires infinite funding. If that's your requisite good luck funding anything.
fastball 7y ago
"Leaving your career for UBI" is literally the opposite of what UBI is intended to do.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  That's what it's always sold for. Instead of staying in soul crushing jobs in order to survive people could pursue new things and be creative.
  - fastball 7y ago
    Right, the emphasis being on "pursue new things and be creative". UBI is generally not intended to allow people to live out their entire lives without doing anything of value for anyone else. And if you're doing things that are valuable to the rest of society, you are paid under capitalism. So the hope with UBI is that you should never need it for your entire life because you're not making any money at all.
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      What do the people do if their new thing doesn’t work out? There will be plenty of these. If UBI isn’t life long then it’s more like giving everybody a sum of money which they can use to start something new. If they cant fall back on UBI then it’s exactly the same situation as we have now where a lot of people stay in careers they hate because they are afraid of losing what they have.
      - fastball 7y ago
        There already are those people. UBI does not create more failed people. 15 years is a long time. 2 years can be enough to try something new for a lot of things. If it doesn't work out, you can go back to the career you had before, or maybe even find one you hate slightly less. Or maybe you didn't hate your job, you just wanted to try something new. If it doesn't work out, go back to the job you liked well enough.

belltaco 7y ago

I don't the point of UBI is for everyone to leave their careers. If anything, it's the opposite.

godelski 7y ago
Which is exactly why UBI is generally suggested to give below the poverty line. Enough to survive but not enough to be comfortable. Enough to get you through downturns but not enough where you'll abandon a well paying job.
- giarc 7y ago
  I believe it was Andrew Yang who talked about UBI on Recode podcast recently. He also talked about UBI giving people the freedom to try something new. You may be more likely to start a business if you knew you had something to fall back on. This might be especially beneficial in the rural areas of America where $1000/month will support you longer than in urban centres.
- buboard 7y ago
  Which is why i can't fathom why every business would not raise their prices to match the UBI minimum. I mean it's not like there would be anyone who can't afford that.
  - godelski 7y ago
    Because UBI could open their market to more people. If they can make the same profit per person but increase their market size, why raise prices? That prices out more people. In fact this is commonly done now. You sell at a competitive price to expand your market share. It's exactly the tactic of companies like Amazon and Walmart. The problem is if a company has a monopoly and the good is a necessity.
    - buboard 7y ago
      > If they can make the same profit per person but increase their market size, why raise prices There is no dichotomy here- their market size increases magically with UBI. If the answer to that question was even remotely close to yes, the tech sector would be full of hungry workers.
- deegles 7y ago
  UBI has to be universal in order to avoid it being stigmatized as a "poor people thing".

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

godelski 7y ago

Like I said, this would be a good experiment. You can rely on it for at least a decade and that's further ahead than most people think. But that's also assuming the fund doesn't grow. Which it will. And it UBI works then there is absolutely no reason to think this fund won't get bigger. But saying we can't try because this can only fund 15 years is kind of an obtuse statement. Indefinite finding requires infinite funding. If that's your requisite good luck funding anything.

fastball 7y ago

"Leaving your career for UBI" is literally the opposite of what UBI is intended to do.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
That's what it's always sold for. Instead of staying in soul crushing jobs in order to survive people could pursue new things and be creative.
- fastball 7y ago
  Right, the emphasis being on "pursue new things and be creative". UBI is generally not intended to allow people to live out their entire lives without doing anything of value for anyone else. And if you're doing things that are valuable to the rest of society, you are paid under capitalism. So the hope with UBI is that you should never need it for your entire life because you're not making any money at all.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    What do the people do if their new thing doesn’t work out? There will be plenty of these. If UBI isn’t life long then it’s more like giving everybody a sum of money which they can use to start something new. If they cant fall back on UBI then it’s exactly the same situation as we have now where a lot of people stay in careers they hate because they are afraid of losing what they have.
    - fastball 7y ago
      There already are those people. UBI does not create more failed people. 15 years is a long time. 2 years can be enough to try something new for a lot of things. If it doesn't work out, you can go back to the career you had before, or maybe even find one you hate slightly less. Or maybe you didn't hate your job, you just wanted to try something new. If it doesn't work out, go back to the job you liked well enough.