6 ms·

"They need to stop hiring engineers and start hiring UX guys." The two complaints you just aired are engineering complaints -- GPU usage by the core UI, and as

by ergo98 16y ago

"They need to stop hiring engineers and start hiring UX guys." The two complaints you just aired are engineering complaints -- GPU usage by the core UI, and as a related complaint that the zoom speed of the browser isn't great (which again is GPU usage -- on the iPhone it is simply zooming in on a surface skin). If I had to compare minor interface lag against the completely broken notification system on the iPhone, the latter absolutely eclipses the former. If you want to call one "not ready", I would say broken fundamental functionality is quite a bit higher on the complaint scale. Or at least it should be...yet we always hear about minor scroll stuttering. Just as is the case with the iTunes dependency (no thanks), and previously the complete lack of reasonable multitasking. Those egregious usage issues, however, always take a backseat to frivolous "you will never notice it when you actually use the device in real practice" trivialities. Windows Phone 7 is providing a better UX than Android on version 1, and it doesn't strongly emulate iOS like Android does. Wrong on all counts.

Lewisham 16y ago
The two complaints you just aired are engineering complaints -- GPU usage by the core UI, and as a related complaint that the zoom speed of the browser isn't great (which again is GPU usage -- on the iPhone it is simply zooming in on a surface skin). Be careful here. They're engineering fixes, but the complaints are due to UX, and UX guys wouldn't have let those problems leave the lab. The GPU acceleration issue[1] has been open a long time, and a Google dev even said they think about it often and discount it. That's the problem: they're working on issues they think are important/interesting with their engineering hats, which isn't what users are asking for. [1]: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914
- ergo98 16y ago
  They're engineering fixes, but the complaints are due to UX, and UX guys wouldn't have let those problems leave the lab. The lack of GPU usage is an engineering and time restriction: Android is available on many devices, not all of which have GPUs supporting two surfaces at once. Android made a completely reasonable compromise of not using the GPU for the surface which in practice works perfectly fine. With enough time and engineering effort they could, and should, create divergent codepaths for higher-end and lower-end devices, which is exactly what they are doing with Honeycomb. I have no doubt they'll resolve it as the platform matures and the hardware base improves. It just isn't as important of an issue as many seem to believe it is: Again, I use Android as my primary smartphone device. Minor interface stuttering just isn't a big issue, or any issue at all for that matter. What I did have a problem with was games that, due to GC pauses, stuttered (a problem that kills it as a gaming platform pre-2.3). That has been largely resolved in 2.3 with the concurrent GC (which also improves the base UI).
  - ugh 16y ago
    Aren’t we talking here about very personal reviews? Stuttering may not be an issue for you but it is an issue for me. It’s a dealbreaker for me.
    - rimantas 16y ago
      It's a dealbreaker for very many people. The guy just does not know or simply chooses to ignore UX matters, otherwise he would know what's important and what's not.
      - ugh 16y ago
        I just want to make clear that I disagree with you. I don’t know how many people care about UI stuttering but I suspect that there aren’t many. I care about it but I feel very much like part of a minority. I just wanted to make clear that different people have different priorities.
        rimantas 16y ago
        I know that you don't know. If you would know, you would not call that number "minority".
ugh 16y ago
“Windows Phone 7 is providing a better UX than Android on version 1, and it doesn't strongly emulate iOS like Android does. Wrong on all counts.” Could you elaborate? I think that Windows Phone 7 has an absolutely stellar UI that’s at least aesthetically but I also think in other respects unlike Android or iOS.
rimantas 16y ago
If I had to compare minor interface lag against the completely broken notification system on the iPhone, the latter absolutely eclipses the former. How is notification system on iPhone „completely broken“? I am asking, because even if my needs for notification are very basic, but what iOS offers match them perfectly, so it is not by any means broken. If it was completely broken, it would not work at all, right? No there is no such thing as „minor interface lag“. If you notice a lag is not minor any more: it is one of the most irritating aspect of any UI. And UI stands for user interface: that means the thing you interact with every time you are using the device. That's why you always hear about „minor scroll stuttering“: because it is not minor. Complaining about iTunes dependency, but silent about Google services dependency? Wrong on all count. Indeed.
- ergo98 16y ago
  If you notice a lag is not minor any more: it is one of the most irritating aspect of any UI. The people who complain about minor, incidental interface lag are the people who don't use Android. To people who use it day to day it just doesn't matter. It really doesn't. But please, tell me again what's important to some iPhone users who don't use Android, repeat talking points, and live with a system missing basic functionality. Complaining about iTunes dependency, but silent about Google services dependency? Actually I'm complaining about the archaic, Windows Mobile like "Hook it up to a real computer" nonsense. Again, there is nothing good about that.
  - rimantas 16y ago
    To people who use it day to day it just doesn't matter. It really doesn't. You saying so does not make it so. Invest some time in learning about usability, especially touch screen interfaces.
    - ergo98 16y ago
      Says some boring internet goblin that has almost certainly never touched an Android device, much less in any real world situation. You're another bore with your tired talking points pushing forward the iPhone religion. Get a grip.

by ergo98 16y ago

Lewisham 16y ago

The two complaints you just aired are engineering complaints -- GPU usage by the core UI, and as a related complaint that the zoom speed of the browser isn't great (which again is GPU usage -- on the iPhone it is simply zooming in on a surface skin). Be careful here. They're engineering fixes, but the complaints are due to UX, and UX guys wouldn't have let those problems leave the lab. The GPU acceleration issue[1] has been open a long time, and a Google dev even said they think about it often and discount it. That's the problem: they're working on issues they think are important/interesting with their engineering hats, which isn't what users are asking for. [1]: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914

ergo98 16y ago
They're engineering fixes, but the complaints are due to UX, and UX guys wouldn't have let those problems leave the lab. The lack of GPU usage is an engineering and time restriction: Android is available on many devices, not all of which have GPUs supporting two surfaces at once. Android made a completely reasonable compromise of not using the GPU for the surface which in practice works perfectly fine. With enough time and engineering effort they could, and should, create divergent codepaths for higher-end and lower-end devices, which is exactly what they are doing with Honeycomb. I have no doubt they'll resolve it as the platform matures and the hardware base improves. It just isn't as important of an issue as many seem to believe it is: Again, I use Android as my primary smartphone device. Minor interface stuttering just isn't a big issue, or any issue at all for that matter. What I did have a problem with was games that, due to GC pauses, stuttered (a problem that kills it as a gaming platform pre-2.3). That has been largely resolved in 2.3 with the concurrent GC (which also improves the base UI).
- ugh 16y ago
  Aren’t we talking here about very personal reviews? Stuttering may not be an issue for you but it is an issue for me. It’s a dealbreaker for me.
  - rimantas 16y ago
    It's a dealbreaker for very many people. The guy just does not know or simply chooses to ignore UX matters, otherwise he would know what's important and what's not.
    - ugh 16y ago
      I just want to make clear that I disagree with you. I don’t know how many people care about UI stuttering but I suspect that there aren’t many. I care about it but I feel very much like part of a minority. I just wanted to make clear that different people have different priorities.
      - rimantas 16y ago
        I know that you don't know. If you would know, you would not call that number "minority".

ugh 16y ago

“Windows Phone 7 is providing a better UX than Android on version 1, and it doesn't strongly emulate iOS like Android does. Wrong on all counts.” Could you elaborate? I think that Windows Phone 7 has an absolutely stellar UI that’s at least aesthetically but I also think in other respects unlike Android or iOS.

rimantas 16y ago

If I had to compare minor interface lag against the completely broken notification system on the iPhone, the latter absolutely eclipses the former. How is notification system on iPhone „completely broken“? I am asking, because even if my needs for notification are very basic, but what iOS offers match them perfectly, so it is not by any means broken. If it was completely broken, it would not work at all, right? No there is no such thing as „minor interface lag“. If you notice a lag is not minor any more: it is one of the most irritating aspect of any UI. And UI stands for user interface: that means the thing you interact with every time you are using the device. That's why you always hear about „minor scroll stuttering“: because it is not minor. Complaining about iTunes dependency, but silent about Google services dependency? Wrong on all count. Indeed.

ergo98 16y ago
If you notice a lag is not minor any more: it is one of the most irritating aspect of any UI. The people who complain about minor, incidental interface lag are the people who don't use Android. To people who use it day to day it just doesn't matter. It really doesn't. But please, tell me again what's important to some iPhone users who don't use Android, repeat talking points, and live with a system missing basic functionality. Complaining about iTunes dependency, but silent about Google services dependency? Actually I'm complaining about the archaic, Windows Mobile like "Hook it up to a real computer" nonsense. Again, there is nothing good about that.
- rimantas 16y ago
  To people who use it day to day it just doesn't matter. It really doesn't. You saying so does not make it so. Invest some time in learning about usability, especially touch screen interfaces.
  - ergo98 16y ago
    Says some boring internet goblin that has almost certainly never touched an Android device, much less in any real world situation. You're another bore with your tired talking points pushing forward the iPhone religion. Get a grip.