7 ms·

Of course the Japanese had this concept figured out. I do this thing with a small group of friends, where we drive like 3-4 grands worth of speakers and room c

by apecat 7y ago

Of course the Japanese had this concept figured out. I do this thing with a small group of friends, where we drive like 3-4 grands worth of speakers and room correction DSP (Genelec and DSpeaker) to a summer cottage every 6-8 weeks or so. The place, a big log cabin, happens to have wonderful acoustics. And we just sit back, mostly STFU and listen to a selection of music for an entire evening, DJ:ed by me (I accept requests), and we eat good food. There's no background music, when we cook, eat or clean, because we want to rest our ears for the main sessions. The next day, we drive back, I check everything we listened to from Last.fm, and I create a Spotify playlist of the event, which we all save. Most people look at me like I’m insane when I describe this activity.

mrhappyunhappy 7y ago
This sounds wonderful, not at all insane.
- apecat 7y ago
  Oh, trust me, it's an absolute delight. It's tingly, ASMR-like and you hear stuff in a completely different way. One of my friends just goes to town with his synesthesia and usually keeps his eyes shut for a big part of the evening. One of the most mind-blowing experiences I've had there with a well-known piece of music that many can relate to: the bass on the 2018 mix of The Beatles' 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps'. In a room with almost no resonance it's just so nice and warm. Similarly, with the clean bass, you fall for these hidden gems, even among contemporary top 40 pop, like Dua Lipa's hit 'New Rules' from a couple of years back. Also, a fair chunk of pop sounds quite airy and nice compared to ten years ago. My point is though that it's very self-selecting crowd we've attracted. Not even everyone who loves music enjoy sitting still and quiet for an evening, save for our quick remarks and giggles of pleasant surprise, for example when we describe how good some cheesy 80s pop tune actually sounds. There are no guilty pleasures if the production is good :D Now with the Tool discography coming to streaming tomorrow(!!!) I suspect our next session is going to be quite the orgy.
fastcucumber 7y ago
I think this might be my dream
JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
Just from reading your comment I felt like I went on that trip a little bit and it was amazing. Love the playlist afterwards so you can remember it and go back to the music and experience.
- apecat 7y ago
  If you can, please steal and/or adapt this idea in any shape or form. Music is such a nice and safe drug. Here's the playlist from our latest adventure https://open.spotify.com/playlist/76BJ3kWrBGo0b9p9M2uMob https://open.spotify.com/playlist/76BJ3kWrBGo0b9p9M2uMob My Last.fm is here https://www.last.fm/user/apecat https://www.last.fm/user/apecat I think a lot of people are more open to this kind of thing than they think. Purists can complain all day long about Bluetooth audio (I say ABX blind test AAC/AptX transcoding or GTFO), but I'm blown away by the potential brought along with the popularity of premium wireless closed-back cans with active noise cancellation. These are oftentimes bought for reducing or avoiding stress, but they have great potential to counteract the awful trend of people not even having typical 90s micro stereo system at home, but using exclusively laptop or TV speakers, or mono BT speakers. So, I'm not grumpy: I like a lot of trends in contemporary personal music listening, mainly streaming for decent quality sources (I equally devour albums, curated playlist and algorithmic recommendations). I've had Spotify Premium since March 15 2009, and it has done so much for my appreciation of music.
  - apecat 7y ago
    Oh, I noticed I've gotten new followers on Spotify in just a new minutes. I love shared Spotify playlists so, so much. I also entertain friends with my 'Mistape', a six-track, made-to-crossfade playlist sans genre BS, which I update Fridays https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6LpZZfvO70x1YkNkRGToMV https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6LpZZfvO70x1YkNkRGToMV
    - ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
      I'm about to lose an entire day to playlist isomerism.
    - 7y ago
scarecrowbob 7y ago
How do you deal with the room acoustics in this situation?
- apecat 7y ago
  I'm glad you asked, and ideas are welcome! I'm not an audio pro and I suck at physics. I'm at work but I fired up Skitch and made this ridiculous little drawing, which should explain the situation somewhat. http://www.nybergh.net/stuff/linked/2019/08/hifi-cottage.png http://www.nybergh.net/stuff/linked/2019/08/hifi-cottage.png Basically, we're using the corner of the L-shaped kitchen+living room space to our advantage by moving the couch a bit and pointing the speakers there. The sub sounds super clean anywhere near the convex corner with the fireplace. I find that the biggest challenge is the stereo sweet spot, which always is going to be annoyingly garbage and narrow with two-channel stereo. The subtle room reflections help a bit, and we rotate seating to make it a bit more fair. I read renowned Harman researcher Floyd E. Toole's 'Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms' and he seems to agree that there's not a whole lot that can be done about two-channel stereo. In fact, Toole rants in favor of three front channels quite a lot, and well as mocking audiophiles who think their rooms are going to be likely to not need basic tone controls on reproduction gear. https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers-Engineering/dp/0240520092 https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Psychoacoustics-Lo... But back to business, with this nice house we don't really need to do much. The log walls absorb a lot, while leaving a nice little lively touch that makes it not feel like a padded room (one of my friends had a padded room before for music, and I've decided I definitely prefer a room that feels a little bit alive). My friend has this DSpeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 for room correction http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml The same friend has two Genelec 8330A active speakers that could do room correction on their own https://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-studio-monitors/8330a-sam-studio-monitor https://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-studio-monitors/... Then we have a previous model of the Genelec F One form factor subwoofer, I can't remember the model number, which is alphabet soup, even though it's connected to my system at home. https://www.genelec.com/home-speakers/f-series-active-subwoofers/f-one-active-subwoofer https://www.genelec.com/home-speakers/f-series-active-subwoo... The Genelecs are both compact, durable and easy to transport, and we have telecope model stands for them. They have a super nice mid range for guitar and the human voice, and they're also quite nice to look at. When we set up the space, we basically let the DSpeaker box do its frequency swipes for ten minutes or so. We'd be fine without it even, but it just clears up the bass so nicely.
jqbx_jason 7y ago
That sounds awesome! If you're interested it would be cool if you put on an event for us all on JQBX [1] one day :) shoot me an email if you want and I can set it up. https://www.jqbx.fm https://www.jqbx.fm
- apecat 7y ago
  This is a really promising concept, I'll definitely shoot you a message later, when I'm done at the business factory
- erikig 7y ago
  Kudos on jqbx.fm - I was so sad when turntable.fm met its quiet demise and its nice to see a solid alternative with a vibrant community
- dewey 7y ago
  Sometimes I really miss how "closed" Apple Music is, all the integrations are always for Spotify. Do you know if it's an API limitation or a market share / prioritization? If I'd have to guess I'd say the former.
fortran77 7y ago
3-4 grand of speakers will get you one Genelec. Unless you like listening in mono, that won't get you very far. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/8341SAM--genelec-8341-sam-3-way-coaxial-powered-studio-monitor https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/8341SAM--genelec-834... That said, they're great speakers. We use these for our 7+2 Atmos system for our home speaker.
- renaudg 7y ago
  Not really, they have a whole range. This one is a favorite in home recording studios : https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/8030CPM--genelec-8030c-5-inch-powered-studio-monitor https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/8030CPM--genelec-803...
  - apecat 7y ago
    Yup, and that Genelec sub (superceded by the F One) we use cost like EUR 600 in 2012 or so. The Genelec 8330A, which has programmable DSP, can be found at under EUR 800/piece these days from Thomann, a major German music online story that ships across Europe. I think my friend paid like a little over EUR 2k in total for his pair a couple of years ago. https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_8330_apm.htm https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_8330_apm.htm Here in Finland, everyone loves Genelec to the point of misplaced national pride. Non-audiophiles sometimes buy them as design pieces for living rooms. Of course, they're nice looking active speakers, and everyone hates receiver/amps and the crafty bullshit that goes into passive speaker wiring, so they solve a problem. The smallest Genelecs are the G Ones, they cost like eur 700/pair. They're light, durable and pretty. They're still near field monitors, and have a lot of that mid range niceness I love in Genelecs and are super sweet if you listen to music at your desk, especially if you also get the F One sub. Steve Jobs would likely approve, as he did with his older Genelecs https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/2wj9ly/genelec_1029a_studio_monitors_on_steve_jobs_home/ https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/2wj9ly/genelec_... But obviously the G Ones aren't ideal in any but the smallest living rooms, or with ceiling mountes in restaurants, because they're not made for that. They end up sound sound anemic, as you'd expect.
1290cc 7y ago
I feel your friends would enjoy hanging out in my lounge listening on a pair of Devore Orangutan 96's, Totaldac d1-direct and Leben tube amp. My dream setup and can't believe I have this in my home to enjoy everyday. They have a similar setup at Bar Shiru in downtown Oakland but its too noisy to appreciate the setup they have.
- InterimNew 7y ago
  It's a shame when the crowd noise overwhelms the system at Shiru. I've found that the sweet spot for dropping in to be around 2pm Sunday. Happy bartenders, quiet patrons, good music.
- apecat 7y ago
  That seems like a dream setup indeed. What can I say, try to get as many people as possible to enjoy it!
somberi 7y ago
Not insane at all. This is such a lovely and decadent way to live. A pair of Devialet Speakers (about 1.5K USD each) which are about 25lbs (11kgs) each, is a surprisingly easy and satisfying way to achieve this. The sound is rich, satisfying and similar to what I normally associate a 15-20K USD setup with. Someone mentioned Genelec, wanted to add an another option.
- apecat 7y ago
  Oh, Genelecs are professional tools and an acquired taste for anything outside the studio. I really hope no-one runs out and buys Genelecs for living room use based on this thread, without understanding what they're getting themselves into.
thirdsun 7y ago
That sounds lovely. As a music collector and enthusiast, I find it hard it indeed hard to share this passion as it ahs become a rather niche interest. I think it's a shame that music has been reduced to background noise these days, a thing you passively and at best semi-consciously consume while doing something else. I'd love to find a way to have something like a listening session among like-minded people without geographic limitations since it's hard to find other nearby people, let alone actual friends, interested in the same deep and niche genres - a barrier that is easily overcome online where like-minded enthusiasts are listening to the same hidden gems, enjoy the selection of well-regarded curators and browse the same hard to find records on Discogs - unfortunately all of that happens rather isolated in their home. And while I can (and do) broadcast my taste and selection via Soundcloud, Mixcloud or any number of channels and services, I'd love to see something that allows music lovers to come together and share/stream their picks, taking turns, discussing the records in a live-setting. A lossless, audio-streaming chat room if you will.
capedape 7y ago
This is a great idea to do with friends. I go to many of these venues when I’m in Tokyo. Little things like this are actually popping up all over too. In SF there is https://www.envelop.us/sf-events https://www.envelop.us/sf-events a very thoughtful and intentional audio experience. Also, https://secular-sabbath.com/about https://secular-sabbath.com/about (put on by Mike Milosh and some friends) is great. I haven’t drank or done drugs in a long time, listening to and making music is my drug. That said, I did do a couple very small micro doses while in Tokyo with the intention of walking through from one listening bar to another. That was quite a trip. Thanks for posting your playlist, long time DJ here and we have similar taste. ;)

by apecat 7y ago

mrhappyunhappy 7y ago

This sounds wonderful, not at all insane.

apecat 7y ago
Oh, trust me, it's an absolute delight. It's tingly, ASMR-like and you hear stuff in a completely different way. One of my friends just goes to town with his synesthesia and usually keeps his eyes shut for a big part of the evening. One of the most mind-blowing experiences I've had there with a well-known piece of music that many can relate to: the bass on the 2018 mix of The Beatles' 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps'. In a room with almost no resonance it's just so nice and warm. Similarly, with the clean bass, you fall for these hidden gems, even among contemporary top 40 pop, like Dua Lipa's hit 'New Rules' from a couple of years back. Also, a fair chunk of pop sounds quite airy and nice compared to ten years ago. My point is though that it's very self-selecting crowd we've attracted. Not even everyone who loves music enjoy sitting still and quiet for an evening, save for our quick remarks and giggles of pleasant surprise, for example when we describe how good some cheesy 80s pop tune actually sounds. There are no guilty pleasures if the production is good :D Now with the Tool discography coming to streaming tomorrow(!!!) I suspect our next session is going to be quite the orgy.

fastcucumber 7y ago

I think this might be my dream

JohnJamesRambo 7y ago

Just from reading your comment I felt like I went on that trip a little bit and it was amazing. Love the playlist afterwards so you can remember it and go back to the music and experience.

apecat 7y ago
If you can, please steal and/or adapt this idea in any shape or form. Music is such a nice and safe drug. Here's the playlist from our latest adventure https://open.spotify.com/playlist/76BJ3kWrBGo0b9p9M2uMob https://open.spotify.com/playlist/76BJ3kWrBGo0b9p9M2uMob My Last.fm is here https://www.last.fm/user/apecat https://www.last.fm/user/apecat I think a lot of people are more open to this kind of thing than they think. Purists can complain all day long about Bluetooth audio (I say ABX blind test AAC/AptX transcoding or GTFO), but I'm blown away by the potential brought along with the popularity of premium wireless closed-back cans with active noise cancellation. These are oftentimes bought for reducing or avoiding stress, but they have great potential to counteract the awful trend of people not even having typical 90s micro stereo system at home, but using exclusively laptop or TV speakers, or mono BT speakers. So, I'm not grumpy: I like a lot of trends in contemporary personal music listening, mainly streaming for decent quality sources (I equally devour albums, curated playlist and algorithmic recommendations). I've had Spotify Premium since March 15 2009, and it has done so much for my appreciation of music.
- apecat 7y ago
  Oh, I noticed I've gotten new followers on Spotify in just a new minutes. I love shared Spotify playlists so, so much. I also entertain friends with my 'Mistape', a six-track, made-to-crossfade playlist sans genre BS, which I update Fridays https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6LpZZfvO70x1YkNkRGToMV https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6LpZZfvO70x1YkNkRGToMV
  - ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
    I'm about to lose an entire day to playlist isomerism.
  - 7y ago

scarecrowbob 7y ago

How do you deal with the room acoustics in this situation?

apecat 7y ago
I'm glad you asked, and ideas are welcome! I'm not an audio pro and I suck at physics. I'm at work but I fired up Skitch and made this ridiculous little drawing, which should explain the situation somewhat. http://www.nybergh.net/stuff/linked/2019/08/hifi-cottage.png http://www.nybergh.net/stuff/linked/2019/08/hifi-cottage.png Basically, we're using the corner of the L-shaped kitchen+living room space to our advantage by moving the couch a bit and pointing the speakers there. The sub sounds super clean anywhere near the convex corner with the fireplace. I find that the biggest challenge is the stereo sweet spot, which always is going to be annoyingly garbage and narrow with two-channel stereo. The subtle room reflections help a bit, and we rotate seating to make it a bit more fair. I read renowned Harman researcher Floyd E. Toole's 'Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms' and he seems to agree that there's not a whole lot that can be done about two-channel stereo. In fact, Toole rants in favor of three front channels quite a lot, and well as mocking audiophiles who think their rooms are going to be likely to not need basic tone controls on reproduction gear. https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers-Engineering/dp/0240520092 https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Psychoacoustics-Lo... But back to business, with this nice house we don't really need to do much. The log walls absorb a lot, while leaving a nice little lively touch that makes it not feel like a padded room (one of my friends had a padded room before for music, and I've decided I definitely prefer a room that feels a little bit alive). My friend has this DSpeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 for room correction http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml The same friend has two Genelec 8330A active speakers that could do room correction on their own https://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-studio-monitors/8330a-sam-studio-monitor https://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-studio-monitors/... Then we have a previous model of the Genelec F One form factor subwoofer, I can't remember the model number, which is alphabet soup, even though it's connected to my system at home. https://www.genelec.com/home-speakers/f-series-active-subwoofers/f-one-active-subwoofer https://www.genelec.com/home-speakers/f-series-active-subwoo... The Genelecs are both compact, durable and easy to transport, and we have telecope model stands for them. They have a super nice mid range for guitar and the human voice, and they're also quite nice to look at. When we set up the space, we basically let the DSpeaker box do its frequency swipes for ten minutes or so. We'd be fine without it even, but it just clears up the bass so nicely.

jqbx_jason 7y ago

That sounds awesome! If you're interested it would be cool if you put on an event for us all on JQBX [1] one day :) shoot me an email if you want and I can set it up. https://www.jqbx.fm https://www.jqbx.fm

apecat 7y ago
This is a really promising concept, I'll definitely shoot you a message later, when I'm done at the business factory
erikig 7y ago
Kudos on jqbx.fm - I was so sad when turntable.fm met its quiet demise and its nice to see a solid alternative with a vibrant community
dewey 7y ago
Sometimes I really miss how "closed" Apple Music is, all the integrations are always for Spotify. Do you know if it's an API limitation or a market share / prioritization? If I'd have to guess I'd say the former.

fortran77 7y ago

3-4 grand of speakers will get you one Genelec. Unless you like listening in mono, that won't get you very far. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/8341SAM--genelec-8341-sam-3-way-coaxial-powered-studio-monitor https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/8341SAM--genelec-834... That said, they're great speakers. We use these for our 7+2 Atmos system for our home speaker.

renaudg 7y ago
Not really, they have a whole range. This one is a favorite in home recording studios : https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/8030CPM--genelec-8030c-5-inch-powered-studio-monitor https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/8030CPM--genelec-803...
- apecat 7y ago
  Yup, and that Genelec sub (superceded by the F One) we use cost like EUR 600 in 2012 or so. The Genelec 8330A, which has programmable DSP, can be found at under EUR 800/piece these days from Thomann, a major German music online story that ships across Europe. I think my friend paid like a little over EUR 2k in total for his pair a couple of years ago. https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_8330_apm.htm https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_8330_apm.htm Here in Finland, everyone loves Genelec to the point of misplaced national pride. Non-audiophiles sometimes buy them as design pieces for living rooms. Of course, they're nice looking active speakers, and everyone hates receiver/amps and the crafty bullshit that goes into passive speaker wiring, so they solve a problem. The smallest Genelecs are the G Ones, they cost like eur 700/pair. They're light, durable and pretty. They're still near field monitors, and have a lot of that mid range niceness I love in Genelecs and are super sweet if you listen to music at your desk, especially if you also get the F One sub. Steve Jobs would likely approve, as he did with his older Genelecs https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/2wj9ly/genelec_1029a_studio_monitors_on_steve_jobs_home/ https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/2wj9ly/genelec_... But obviously the G Ones aren't ideal in any but the smallest living rooms, or with ceiling mountes in restaurants, because they're not made for that. They end up sound sound anemic, as you'd expect.

1290cc 7y ago

I feel your friends would enjoy hanging out in my lounge listening on a pair of Devore Orangutan 96's, Totaldac d1-direct and Leben tube amp. My dream setup and can't believe I have this in my home to enjoy everyday. They have a similar setup at Bar Shiru in downtown Oakland but its too noisy to appreciate the setup they have.

InterimNew 7y ago
It's a shame when the crowd noise overwhelms the system at Shiru. I've found that the sweet spot for dropping in to be around 2pm Sunday. Happy bartenders, quiet patrons, good music.
apecat 7y ago
That seems like a dream setup indeed. What can I say, try to get as many people as possible to enjoy it!

somberi 7y ago

Not insane at all. This is such a lovely and decadent way to live. A pair of Devialet Speakers (about 1.5K USD each) which are about 25lbs (11kgs) each, is a surprisingly easy and satisfying way to achieve this. The sound is rich, satisfying and similar to what I normally associate a 15-20K USD setup with. Someone mentioned Genelec, wanted to add an another option.

apecat 7y ago
Oh, Genelecs are professional tools and an acquired taste for anything outside the studio. I really hope no-one runs out and buys Genelecs for living room use based on this thread, without understanding what they're getting themselves into.

thirdsun 7y ago

That sounds lovely. As a music collector and enthusiast, I find it hard it indeed hard to share this passion as it ahs become a rather niche interest. I think it's a shame that music has been reduced to background noise these days, a thing you passively and at best semi-consciously consume while doing something else. I'd love to find a way to have something like a listening session among like-minded people without geographic limitations since it's hard to find other nearby people, let alone actual friends, interested in the same deep and niche genres - a barrier that is easily overcome online where like-minded enthusiasts are listening to the same hidden gems, enjoy the selection of well-regarded curators and browse the same hard to find records on Discogs - unfortunately all of that happens rather isolated in their home. And while I can (and do) broadcast my taste and selection via Soundcloud, Mixcloud or any number of channels and services, I'd love to see something that allows music lovers to come together and share/stream their picks, taking turns, discussing the records in a live-setting. A lossless, audio-streaming chat room if you will.

capedape 7y ago

This is a great idea to do with friends. I go to many of these venues when I’m in Tokyo. Little things like this are actually popping up all over too. In SF there is https://www.envelop.us/sf-events https://www.envelop.us/sf-events a very thoughtful and intentional audio experience. Also, https://secular-sabbath.com/about https://secular-sabbath.com/about (put on by Mike Milosh and some friends) is great. I haven’t drank or done drugs in a long time, listening to and making music is my drug. That said, I did do a couple very small micro doses while in Tokyo with the intention of walking through from one listening bar to another. That was quite a trip. Thanks for posting your playlist, long time DJ here and we have similar taste. ;)