4 ms·

I don't mean for this to be blunt, but since we're talking about work, if I want to persuade you of something, it's your job to listen to me, because my persuas

by jakubp 7y ago

I don't mean for this to be blunt, but since we're talking about work, if I want to persuade you of something, it's your job to listen to me, because my persuasion will be aimed at accomplishing company goals! So we are both on the clock here, not just you. I can also assure you I speak faster than I type, and so it's not just your end that counts. I'm also pretty sure I can say much fewer words with proper tone of voice to convey as much as 5x long email correctly, and a single word of your response and a look at your face as I speak will tell me more of what I should understand of your reaction than even the most elaborate written response... Persuasion and discussion isn't about me laying out my point clearly in a tidy format though, right? It's about mind-sharing, interaction, sensitivity, etc. Maybe we come from very different types of organizations? I have never, ever (!) in my 15+ year career been in a position where too many unprepared people forced me in any way to listen to their stupid / ill-prepared ideas.... [Edit] I'm also confused, how does someone coming up to talk to you forces you to write anything down?? (seriously I don't get that part :) )

0xffff2 7y ago
> I'm also confused, how does someone coming up to talk to you forces you to write anything down?? (seriously I don't get that part :) ) Agree with the rest of your post, but this was the main takeaway for me. If you compulsively take notes one every single face to face interaction, that's not my problem.
- thinkersilver 7y ago
  Well they did qualify with that it was a complex topic. And am not sure he hinted that it was compulsive. I tend to work in a banking infrastructure environment and it's common practice to take notes, The number of conversations I have during the day often has me saying, I'm not going to remember everything you've said, could you put that in a email so I can get back to you properly. It does depend on the environment,
korzun 7y ago
> I don't mean for this to be blunt, but since we're talking about work, if I want to persuade you of something, it's your job to listen to me, because my persuasion will be aimed at accomplishing company goals! So we are both on the clock here, not just you. It's also your job to read emails from your coworkers. What might be a very efficient process for you, might not work for others. It sounds like you love wasting everybody's time on the companies dime; not just yours.
tvanantwerp 7y ago
> if I want to persuade you of something, it's your job to listen to me > Maybe we come from very different types of organizations? I have never, ever (!) in my 15+ year career been in a position where too many unprepared people forced me in any way to listen to their stupid / ill-prepared ideas.... You truly work in some parallel universe to my own where the laws of office interaction are very different from those I've observed. Are you hiring?
mamon 7y ago
> I'm also confused, how does someone coming up to talk to you forces you to write anything down?? (seriously I don't get that part :) ) Because the most important thing in corporate environment is paper trail. If someone comes to you in person and convinces you to do something you still need an email exchange with summary of what you've agreed on, otherwise someday someone will blame you for a bad decision, and you won't have anything material to defend yourself with.
daveslash 7y ago
>if I want to persuade you of something, it's your job to listen to me If you're trying to persuade someone of something, you're the salesman in that situation. Keep that in mind. >I can also assure you I speak faster than I type, and so it's not just your end that counts. That wasn't the point; jasode was asserting that many people read other peoples' writing faster than others speak, not that other people can type faster than they can speak.
- jakubp 7y ago
  I get it. But we have to weigh both sides of the cost, and if you want me to type something up, it's not just that you gain by it because you read fast - I lose something because I type slow! And org pays for both our times.

by jakubp 7y ago

0xffff2 7y ago

> I'm also confused, how does someone coming up to talk to you forces you to write anything down?? (seriously I don't get that part :) ) Agree with the rest of your post, but this was the main takeaway for me. If you compulsively take notes one every single face to face interaction, that's not my problem.

thinkersilver 7y ago
Well they did qualify with that it was a complex topic. And am not sure he hinted that it was compulsive. I tend to work in a banking infrastructure environment and it's common practice to take notes, The number of conversations I have during the day often has me saying, I'm not going to remember everything you've said, could you put that in a email so I can get back to you properly. It does depend on the environment,

korzun 7y ago

> I don't mean for this to be blunt, but since we're talking about work, if I want to persuade you of something, it's your job to listen to me, because my persuasion will be aimed at accomplishing company goals! So we are both on the clock here, not just you. It's also your job to read emails from your coworkers. What might be a very efficient process for you, might not work for others. It sounds like you love wasting everybody's time on the companies dime; not just yours.

tvanantwerp 7y ago

> if I want to persuade you of something, it's your job to listen to me > Maybe we come from very different types of organizations? I have never, ever (!) in my 15+ year career been in a position where too many unprepared people forced me in any way to listen to their stupid / ill-prepared ideas.... You truly work in some parallel universe to my own where the laws of office interaction are very different from those I've observed. Are you hiring?

mamon 7y ago

> I'm also confused, how does someone coming up to talk to you forces you to write anything down?? (seriously I don't get that part :) ) Because the most important thing in corporate environment is paper trail. If someone comes to you in person and convinces you to do something you still need an email exchange with summary of what you've agreed on, otherwise someday someone will blame you for a bad decision, and you won't have anything material to defend yourself with.

daveslash 7y ago

>if I want to persuade you of something, it's your job to listen to me If you're trying to persuade someone of something, you're the salesman in that situation. Keep that in mind. >I can also assure you I speak faster than I type, and so it's not just your end that counts. That wasn't the point; jasode was asserting that many people read other peoples' writing faster than others speak, not that other people can type faster than they can speak.

jakubp 7y ago
I get it. But we have to weigh both sides of the cost, and if you want me to type something up, it's not just that you gain by it because you read fast - I lose something because I type slow! And org pays for both our times.