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Google sent out phones to both Gruber and Siegler. What were they thinking? Neither are fair actors, and neither have any credibility outside of the core Apple

by ergo98 16y ago

Google sent out phones to both Gruber and Siegler. What were they thinking? Neither are fair actors, and neither have any credibility outside of the core Apple base. They are lost causes. There is no value in courting them: Let the product diminish their relevance, which is exactly what has already happened. Siegler's review pretends that he gave it a fair shake, yet like all Apple reviews it only notes where Android fails, in his opinion, relative to the iPhone. Where, for instance, is any comment on the superior Android notification system (which to me is a dealbreaker of the iPhone), the power of widgets, the granular app permissions, etc. As much as he doth protest, his conclusion was predetermined. There is no scenario where he would consider it a superior device.

Lewisham 16y ago
While true, I don't necessarily think that the opinion should be discounted. I have been looking to buy a Nexus S this week, I went to Best Buy, $530 in hand, but I vowed to play with it first. The demo unit was not good. Google have let themselves fall behind, particuarly that the GPU still isn't accelerating graphics (leading to a jerky experience) and little things being to irritate (double-tap to zoom in Browser results in a jerky 3 fps zoom, whereas the iPhone does it wonderfully). It all adds up to say "I'm not ready yet." Unfortunately, Android hasn't been ready yet for a long time. They need to stop hiring engineers and start hiring UX guys. All the apps from Google are great. The technical underpinnings are great. The UX is pretty poor; the only win over iOS are widgets and notifications. It blows my mind that Apple hasn't emulated those yet. Windows Phone 7 is providing a better UX than Android on version 1, and it doesn't strongly emulate iOS like Android does.
- ergo98 16y ago
  "They need to stop hiring engineers and start hiring UX guys." The two complaints you just aired are engineering complaints -- GPU usage by the core UI, and as a related complaint that the zoom speed of the browser isn't great (which again is GPU usage -- on the iPhone it is simply zooming in on a surface skin). If I had to compare minor interface lag against the completely broken notification system on the iPhone, the latter absolutely eclipses the former. If you want to call one "not ready", I would say broken fundamental functionality is quite a bit higher on the complaint scale. Or at least it should be...yet we always hear about minor scroll stuttering. Just as is the case with the iTunes dependency (no thanks), and previously the complete lack of reasonable multitasking. Those egregious usage issues, however, always take a backseat to frivolous "you will never notice it when you actually use the device in real practice" trivialities. Windows Phone 7 is providing a better UX than Android on version 1, and it doesn't strongly emulate iOS like Android does. Wrong on all counts.
  - Lewisham 16y ago
    The two complaints you just aired are engineering complaints -- GPU usage by the core UI, and as a related complaint that the zoom speed of the browser isn't great (which again is GPU usage -- on the iPhone it is simply zooming in on a surface skin). Be careful here. They're engineering fixes, but the complaints are due to UX, and UX guys wouldn't have let those problems leave the lab. The GPU acceleration issue[1] has been open a long time, and a Google dev even said they think about it often and discount it. That's the problem: they're working on issues they think are important/interesting with their engineering hats, which isn't what users are asking for. [1]: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914
    - ergo98 16y ago
      They're engineering fixes, but the complaints are due to UX, and UX guys wouldn't have let those problems leave the lab. The lack of GPU usage is an engineering and time restriction: Android is available on many devices, not all of which have GPUs supporting two surfaces at once. Android made a completely reasonable compromise of not using the GPU for the surface which in practice works perfectly fine. With enough time and engineering effort they could, and should, create divergent codepaths for higher-end and lower-end devices, which is exactly what they are doing with Honeycomb. I have no doubt they'll resolve it as the platform matures and the hardware base improves. It just isn't as important of an issue as many seem to believe it is: Again, I use Android as my primary smartphone device. Minor interface stuttering just isn't a big issue, or any issue at all for that matter. What I did have a problem with was games that, due to GC pauses, stuttered (a problem that kills it as a gaming platform pre-2.3). That has been largely resolved in 2.3 with the concurrent GC (which also improves the base UI).
      - ugh 16y ago
        Aren’t we talking here about very personal reviews? Stuttering may not be an issue for you but it is an issue for me. It’s a dealbreaker for me.
- blinkingled 16y ago
  I can take your same argument and claim that iOS is not ready yet for a long time and there are no signs that it will ever be. You focus on the few things that it doesn't do and claim it's not ready. Let me do the same thing with the disclaimer that it is wrong - The iOS browser doesn't adjust text to the screen like the Android browser does. The notification system is horrid. There are no OTA updates leaving many people who don't use iTunes running old versions of software. The UI is not flexible at all - widgets simplify so many things. Sync is pathetic on iOS - on Android picasa photos, contacts, apps and settings are there in the cloud and all I need to do is sign in to my google account and everything is right there. Has Auto Correct been added to iOS keyboard yet? There is no chance for things such as Swype on iOS. There is no back button. Etc. Thus iOS is not ready yet.
  - Lewisham 16y ago
    Well sure, if you want to take it that way :) I just meant "Does this OS feel like it is fully baked?" and it sort of doesn't, because the jerkiness makes you feel like you're interacting with an OS, not a physical item. You have to sit and think a little bit about how your finger movement is going to translate. Graphical acceleration ala iOS and WP7 means you don't have to do that. Notifications, sync, etc etc are all features built on top of that UX foundation, and that's where I (and I think, consumers in general) feel that is the first hurdle you have to overcome. Everything else is gravy. But I do agree about Swype... that's awesome.
    - tensor 16y ago
      This is still a really terrible argument. The Nexus S I have is far, far smoother and responsive than an iphone 3gs and you saw no "half baked" comments about the previous iphones. Not to mention that you don't have to think at all about how your finger will translate: despite a bit of chop occasionally, it still ends up exactly where it should, just like all the previous iphones. As far as I can tell, android is getting a lot of criticism for no reason other than iphones are popular. It's ridiculous, both the nexus s and iphone 4 are extremely advanced, amazing pieces of technology and people argue over some minute perceived jitter or other non-objective observation. From this, they jump to over the top criticism like "half baked," "inferior device," and "second rate." Your Lamborghini sure is half baked compared to my Ferrari. Consumers will never like Lamborghini until they fix the feel of the steering wheel material!

by ergo98 16y ago

Lewisham 16y ago

While true, I don't necessarily think that the opinion should be discounted. I have been looking to buy a Nexus S this week, I went to Best Buy, $530 in hand, but I vowed to play with it first. The demo unit was not good. Google have let themselves fall behind, particuarly that the GPU still isn't accelerating graphics (leading to a jerky experience) and little things being to irritate (double-tap to zoom in Browser results in a jerky 3 fps zoom, whereas the iPhone does it wonderfully). It all adds up to say "I'm not ready yet." Unfortunately, Android hasn't been ready yet for a long time. They need to stop hiring engineers and start hiring UX guys. All the apps from Google are great. The technical underpinnings are great. The UX is pretty poor; the only win over iOS are widgets and notifications. It blows my mind that Apple hasn't emulated those yet. Windows Phone 7 is providing a better UX than Android on version 1, and it doesn't strongly emulate iOS like Android does.

ergo98 16y ago
"They need to stop hiring engineers and start hiring UX guys." The two complaints you just aired are engineering complaints -- GPU usage by the core UI, and as a related complaint that the zoom speed of the browser isn't great (which again is GPU usage -- on the iPhone it is simply zooming in on a surface skin). If I had to compare minor interface lag against the completely broken notification system on the iPhone, the latter absolutely eclipses the former. If you want to call one "not ready", I would say broken fundamental functionality is quite a bit higher on the complaint scale. Or at least it should be...yet we always hear about minor scroll stuttering. Just as is the case with the iTunes dependency (no thanks), and previously the complete lack of reasonable multitasking. Those egregious usage issues, however, always take a backseat to frivolous "you will never notice it when you actually use the device in real practice" trivialities. Windows Phone 7 is providing a better UX than Android on version 1, and it doesn't strongly emulate iOS like Android does. Wrong on all counts.
- Lewisham 16y ago
  The two complaints you just aired are engineering complaints -- GPU usage by the core UI, and as a related complaint that the zoom speed of the browser isn't great (which again is GPU usage -- on the iPhone it is simply zooming in on a surface skin). Be careful here. They're engineering fixes, but the complaints are due to UX, and UX guys wouldn't have let those problems leave the lab. The GPU acceleration issue[1] has been open a long time, and a Google dev even said they think about it often and discount it. That's the problem: they're working on issues they think are important/interesting with their engineering hats, which isn't what users are asking for. [1]: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914
  - ergo98 16y ago
    They're engineering fixes, but the complaints are due to UX, and UX guys wouldn't have let those problems leave the lab. The lack of GPU usage is an engineering and time restriction: Android is available on many devices, not all of which have GPUs supporting two surfaces at once. Android made a completely reasonable compromise of not using the GPU for the surface which in practice works perfectly fine. With enough time and engineering effort they could, and should, create divergent codepaths for higher-end and lower-end devices, which is exactly what they are doing with Honeycomb. I have no doubt they'll resolve it as the platform matures and the hardware base improves. It just isn't as important of an issue as many seem to believe it is: Again, I use Android as my primary smartphone device. Minor interface stuttering just isn't a big issue, or any issue at all for that matter. What I did have a problem with was games that, due to GC pauses, stuttered (a problem that kills it as a gaming platform pre-2.3). That has been largely resolved in 2.3 with the concurrent GC (which also improves the base UI).
    - ugh 16y ago
      Aren’t we talking here about very personal reviews? Stuttering may not be an issue for you but it is an issue for me. It’s a dealbreaker for me.
blinkingled 16y ago
I can take your same argument and claim that iOS is not ready yet for a long time and there are no signs that it will ever be. You focus on the few things that it doesn't do and claim it's not ready. Let me do the same thing with the disclaimer that it is wrong - The iOS browser doesn't adjust text to the screen like the Android browser does. The notification system is horrid. There are no OTA updates leaving many people who don't use iTunes running old versions of software. The UI is not flexible at all - widgets simplify so many things. Sync is pathetic on iOS - on Android picasa photos, contacts, apps and settings are there in the cloud and all I need to do is sign in to my google account and everything is right there. Has Auto Correct been added to iOS keyboard yet? There is no chance for things such as Swype on iOS. There is no back button. Etc. Thus iOS is not ready yet.
- Lewisham 16y ago
  Well sure, if you want to take it that way :) I just meant "Does this OS feel like it is fully baked?" and it sort of doesn't, because the jerkiness makes you feel like you're interacting with an OS, not a physical item. You have to sit and think a little bit about how your finger movement is going to translate. Graphical acceleration ala iOS and WP7 means you don't have to do that. Notifications, sync, etc etc are all features built on top of that UX foundation, and that's where I (and I think, consumers in general) feel that is the first hurdle you have to overcome. Everything else is gravy. But I do agree about Swype... that's awesome.
  - tensor 16y ago
    This is still a really terrible argument. The Nexus S I have is far, far smoother and responsive than an iphone 3gs and you saw no "half baked" comments about the previous iphones. Not to mention that you don't have to think at all about how your finger will translate: despite a bit of chop occasionally, it still ends up exactly where it should, just like all the previous iphones. As far as I can tell, android is getting a lot of criticism for no reason other than iphones are popular. It's ridiculous, both the nexus s and iphone 4 are extremely advanced, amazing pieces of technology and people argue over some minute perceived jitter or other non-objective observation. From this, they jump to over the top criticism like "half baked," "inferior device," and "second rate." Your Lamborghini sure is half baked compared to my Ferrari. Consumers will never like Lamborghini until they fix the feel of the steering wheel material!