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I visited Mauna Kea as a tourist some years ago. At the time, there were protesters present. They appeared to believe that they had been promised there would

by GlennS 7y ago

I visited Mauna Kea as a tourist some years ago. At the time, there were protesters present. They appeared to believe that they had been promised there would be a limit on how many telescopes were build, and that the astronomers had broken that promised by starting to build a limit+1th telescope without removing an existing one first. Anyone know if there's any truth to this?

goodcanadian 7y ago
I don't know for certain the specific case you are referring to, but it sounds like the Submillimetre Array (SMA). The issue was that SMA was being counted as one telescope (from a functional point of view, it is), but it has 8 antennas. I believe some telescopes have been removed to make way for TMT. The Caltech Submillimetre Observatory (CSO) for one.
privong 7y ago
Part of the TMT agreement (from 2015) involved removing some of the telescopes[0]. At least one telescope has been removed (the Caltech Submillimter Observatory, CSO) but aside from the CSO I'm not sure what the status is of other removals. The agreement was that: > three or four of the mountain’s 13 existing telescopes must be dismantled over the next decade. This implies the currently agreed upon limit is 10 or 11 telescopes (including the TMT). Unless the agreement has changed, I don't think the promise has been broken since the removal was over the 2015-2025 timescale. That being said, I'm unaware if there was a previous deal. There had been some controversy in the past regarding "outrigger" telescopes for the 10m Keck telescopes. These would have been used in combination with the 10m telescopes to do interferometry. It was argued that they were thus not "new" telescopes, but rather additions to the existing Keck telescopes. This was controversial and they were never built. [0] https://www.nature.com/news/hawaii-prunes-mauna-kea-telescope-hub-1.17688 https://www.nature.com/news/hawaii-prunes-mauna-kea-telescop...
- goodcanadian 7y ago
  The outriggers did get approval. My understanding is that they were not built primarily for financial reasons.
  - privong 7y ago
    Okay, thanks for the clarification. I hadn't previously heard what the ultimate reason was.

by GlennS 7y ago

goodcanadian 7y ago

I don't know for certain the specific case you are referring to, but it sounds like the Submillimetre Array (SMA). The issue was that SMA was being counted as one telescope (from a functional point of view, it is), but it has 8 antennas. I believe some telescopes have been removed to make way for TMT. The Caltech Submillimetre Observatory (CSO) for one.

privong 7y ago

Part of the TMT agreement (from 2015) involved removing some of the telescopes[0]. At least one telescope has been removed (the Caltech Submillimter Observatory, CSO) but aside from the CSO I'm not sure what the status is of other removals. The agreement was that: > three or four of the mountain’s 13 existing telescopes must be dismantled over the next decade. This implies the currently agreed upon limit is 10 or 11 telescopes (including the TMT). Unless the agreement has changed, I don't think the promise has been broken since the removal was over the 2015-2025 timescale. That being said, I'm unaware if there was a previous deal. There had been some controversy in the past regarding "outrigger" telescopes for the 10m Keck telescopes. These would have been used in combination with the 10m telescopes to do interferometry. It was argued that they were thus not "new" telescopes, but rather additions to the existing Keck telescopes. This was controversial and they were never built. [0] https://www.nature.com/news/hawaii-prunes-mauna-kea-telescope-hub-1.17688 https://www.nature.com/news/hawaii-prunes-mauna-kea-telescop...

goodcanadian 7y ago
The outriggers did get approval. My understanding is that they were not built primarily for financial reasons.
- privong 7y ago
  Okay, thanks for the clarification. I hadn't previously heard what the ultimate reason was.