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Can you shed insight on why the acceptance of the NHS is like a religion or seemingly tied to national identity so much? Modification or criticism of NHS seems

Can you shed insight on why the acceptance of the NHS is like a religion or seemingly tied to national identity so much? Modification or criticism of NHS seems like an off limits topic with UK residents, and it just seems like a weird topic to be off limits so I don't really understand

astonex 7y ago
I don't think that's true. What we don't like is any talk of Americanising the NHS.
- mhh__ 7y ago
  > What we don't like is any talk of Americanising the NHS The difficulty is that "Americanisation" is this catch all term (Along with Neoliberalism etc.) that doesn't have a defined meaning, but is wide enough to beat any non-left wing solution into the ground. I don't think anyone actually wants the NHS to be more american, but most european healthcare systems have more in common with American one's than ours to some degree (Excluding universality, which it obviously lacks) Imagine if the Orange Book was released now, with it's plans to introduce insurance to the NHS: I can picture the momentum activists screaming now. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/06/20/nhs-one-best-developed-world https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/0... for example (old poll but still usable) 22% of people say the NHS is the best healthcare system in the world when it clearly isn't when measured by various measures most notably cancer outcomes which are pretty bad compared to some countries https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/110/1/5/278036 https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/110/1/5/278036
trampypizza 7y ago
I think it is partially due to the fact that the establishment of the NHS has always been framed as a monumental act. It's creation is seen as part of the country's recovery after WW2, and has been used as a political tool in almost every General Election since 1945. I think people see it as a source of national pride as well (there's some irony in this considering the significant role played by immigrants in the service). Certainly from my point of view, Britain has an extremely questionable history, and for me it feels wrong to have a sense of national pride about the British Empire, or British Military Might etc. However, the NHS is a remarkable organisation which is inherently tied to an ideology and a movement which I believe in, so I am comfortable with feeling proud of it. I do think that it needs to be open to criticism, though. There are issues in the NHS and I'm sure there are problems with the way that National Insurance works (our way of paying for the NHS). I have unfortunately had a lot of exposure to the NHS and the way some things work is frustrating. For example, I am unable to get an insulin pump to treat my Diabetes because there are national requirements that I do not meet. I undertstand why this is in place (budget cuts) but that doesn't stop it from being frustrating - I'd essentially have to sabotage my condition to the point where my control was so bad that I would qualify for a pump. Like the other commenter said, I think what most people hear when people talk of reforming the NHS is an Americanisation of the NHS, and they believe this is inherently bad. Rightly or wrongly, that is the impression that people get. It's a shame because I think it shuts down all talk of reformation, despite the fact that there are other European countries which also have socialised healthcare but operate in different ways which I have heard are more efficient. I haven't done enough research into this to really provide any helpful comparisons, but if anyone has any information or links which explore the funding and service provision of other socialised health care provision in contrast with the UK, I'd love to have a read.
DanBC 7y ago
This is based on a misunderstanding. There are lots of modifications of the NHS that people would welcome. The core features we want to keep are 1) free at the point of delivery 2) provided by NHS organisations (although even this is changing). "The" NHS is incredibly complex and most people have very little idea about how it works which makes any discussion about it very difficult.
mhh__ 7y ago
The NHS is a sacred cow of British politics and in my experience of talking to people both online and in person, most people have absolutely no idea how it compares to alternative systems. Very few people realise, for example, that there are very few healthcare systems in Europe organised like the NHS yet most deliver better results. However, "insurance" is a dirty word because it's associated with American Healthcare rather than continental Europe. 7 countries spend more than healthcare (% of GDP) than us, but 17 score better on the EHCI (Euro Health Consumer Index) and 17 have longer life expectancies. It's also not viable politically (debate around the NHS, that is) because the Labour party is currently being run by it's socialist faction e.g. Some of Corbyn's lieutenants are proper marxists. tl;dr it sounds like a religion because it is a religion to most

astonex 7y ago

I don't think that's true. What we don't like is any talk of Americanising the NHS.

mhh__ 7y ago
> What we don't like is any talk of Americanising the NHS The difficulty is that "Americanisation" is this catch all term (Along with Neoliberalism etc.) that doesn't have a defined meaning, but is wide enough to beat any non-left wing solution into the ground. I don't think anyone actually wants the NHS to be more american, but most european healthcare systems have more in common with American one's than ours to some degree (Excluding universality, which it obviously lacks) Imagine if the Orange Book was released now, with it's plans to introduce insurance to the NHS: I can picture the momentum activists screaming now. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/06/20/nhs-one-best-developed-world https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/0... for example (old poll but still usable) 22% of people say the NHS is the best healthcare system in the world when it clearly isn't when measured by various measures most notably cancer outcomes which are pretty bad compared to some countries https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/110/1/5/278036 https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/110/1/5/278036

trampypizza 7y ago

I think it is partially due to the fact that the establishment of the NHS has always been framed as a monumental act. It's creation is seen as part of the country's recovery after WW2, and has been used as a political tool in almost every General Election since 1945. I think people see it as a source of national pride as well (there's some irony in this considering the significant role played by immigrants in the service). Certainly from my point of view, Britain has an extremely questionable history, and for me it feels wrong to have a sense of national pride about the British Empire, or British Military Might etc. However, the NHS is a remarkable organisation which is inherently tied to an ideology and a movement which I believe in, so I am comfortable with feeling proud of it. I do think that it needs to be open to criticism, though. There are issues in the NHS and I'm sure there are problems with the way that National Insurance works (our way of paying for the NHS). I have unfortunately had a lot of exposure to the NHS and the way some things work is frustrating. For example, I am unable to get an insulin pump to treat my Diabetes because there are national requirements that I do not meet. I undertstand why this is in place (budget cuts) but that doesn't stop it from being frustrating - I'd essentially have to sabotage my condition to the point where my control was so bad that I would qualify for a pump. Like the other commenter said, I think what most people hear when people talk of reforming the NHS is an Americanisation of the NHS, and they believe this is inherently bad. Rightly or wrongly, that is the impression that people get. It's a shame because I think it shuts down all talk of reformation, despite the fact that there are other European countries which also have socialised healthcare but operate in different ways which I have heard are more efficient. I haven't done enough research into this to really provide any helpful comparisons, but if anyone has any information or links which explore the funding and service provision of other socialised health care provision in contrast with the UK, I'd love to have a read.

DanBC 7y ago

This is based on a misunderstanding. There are lots of modifications of the NHS that people would welcome. The core features we want to keep are 1) free at the point of delivery 2) provided by NHS organisations (although even this is changing). "The" NHS is incredibly complex and most people have very little idea about how it works which makes any discussion about it very difficult.

mhh__ 7y ago

The NHS is a sacred cow of British politics and in my experience of talking to people both online and in person, most people have absolutely no idea how it compares to alternative systems. Very few people realise, for example, that there are very few healthcare systems in Europe organised like the NHS yet most deliver better results. However, "insurance" is a dirty word because it's associated with American Healthcare rather than continental Europe. 7 countries spend more than healthcare (% of GDP) than us, but 17 score better on the EHCI (Euro Health Consumer Index) and 17 have longer life expectancies. It's also not viable politically (debate around the NHS, that is) because the Labour party is currently being run by it's socialist faction e.g. Some of Corbyn's lieutenants are proper marxists. tl;dr it sounds like a religion because it is a religion to most