4 ms·

If I could pay $400 for bulletproof knifeproof jeans - that are as comfortable as regular ones, I probably would. It isn't necessarily a rational decision, but

by cwkoss 7y ago

If I could pay $400 for bulletproof knifeproof jeans - that are as comfortable as regular ones, I probably would. It isn't necessarily a rational decision, but it would offer a small amount of peace of mind plus a cool factor. Woodworking, gardening, kitchen - several activities would be slightly safer with some extra stab/slash-protection.

etrautmann 7y ago
I don't understand why this is cool or what it would protect you from? A dress shirt maybe but who's stabbing or shooting legs?
- cwkoss 7y ago
  My threat model is less concerned about intentional violence, and more about accidental injury. If I can reduce my chance of accidental death by 1% for a few hundred bucks, that would be cool, if not necessarily economically rational. Oh, I want the dress shirt too! Heck, I'd wear a helmet with a HUD if it was comfortable and socially acceptable.
  - A2017U1 7y ago
    At that price point it's entirely rational. > wear a helmet with a HUD if it was comfortable and socially acceptable Google glass suggests you'll be waiting a while, I'll be right there with you though. Maybe in Japan one day?
  - stickfigure 7y ago
    Do you require vision correction, and if not, do you wear glasses anyway?
  - LeifCarrotson 7y ago
    > My threat model is less concerned about intentional violence, and more about accidental injury. If I can reduce my chance of accidental death by 1%... We don't live in a world where loaded small arms are distributed about your everyday environment as in video games where they're just laying about on crates which mysteriously clutter offices, and also spontaneously discharge frequently [1]. Under that hypothetical threat model, I will grant that jeans and dress shirts which are casually bullet resistant would be a reasonable response. Instead, a realistic threat model has a huge number of things you could spend your time and money on which would be more effective at keeping you safe. For example, upgrading to a newer car with better safety ratings, and taking extra time to drive slower and more carefully, could be effective in reducing the 0.012% chance you have each year of dying in a motor vehicle accident. That baseline is almost 100 times larger than your (in the US) 0.00015% chance of dying due to a firearm accident. To reduce that already miniscule chance, not keeping a gun in your house, avoiding firing ranges, and avoiding hunting areas would be more effective than everyday Kevlar. [1] Relatively frequent accidental discharge would be an interesting mod for a first-person shooter. It could help teach good muzzle control if you handicap yourself or your teammate before the match even starts.
    - cwkoss 7y ago
      Not accidental bullets, but bits of construction shrapnel, knife or yard tool accidents, etc. Your footnote game mode sounds cool. Could have a 'finger on trigger' toggle and autofire if your reticle at a friendly target with finger on trigger. Make maps that force friendlies to walk infront of each other freqently (halls, etc).
  - dublinben 7y ago
    You're much more likely to be injured by an automobile than a weapon like a knife or gun.
    - tomatotomato37 7y ago
      Isn't that why motorcyclist also wear clothes embedded with kevlar?
    - cwkoss 7y ago
      I'd also be interested in clothing that could reduce injury in the event of an automobile attack, but I suspect many of the solutions would be excessively bulky and thus uncomfortable. Anticipatory airbags would be really cool if you could get the false positive rate acceptably low.
- scottlegrand2 7y ago
  It's mostly magical thinking because it's so very unlikely, but in the odd event of a mass shooter this would come in handy.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- kbenson 7y ago
  And I'm kind of at a loss as to why someone would question the desire for this. The statement is that it's literally as comfortable as a regular piece of the clothing, so the only downside here I see is an increased cost. Given that I'm sure some people pay close to or more than $400 for designer versions of jeans, it seems to me to be at least as good an investment of the money as that choice. Put another way, would you pay $1500 for a car that had a bulletproof exterior if it didn't affect the look, feel or handling/visibility? I think a lot more people would opt for that, and for similar reasons. People routinely spend much more money on things with much less utility, so I'm all for it.
  - jancsika 7y ago
    What is the tear resistance of the jeans of your fantasy? If they are so resistant that medical grade shears cannot cut through them then the practical utility may drop below zero.
    - noodlesUK 7y ago
      I’ve personally experienced medics trying and failing to cut through fencing kit that’s designed to be stab resistant (ish). It’s not fun at all when you have an injury and they can’t treat it cause of your protective gear.
- PaulHoule 7y ago
  I met a kendo instructor who told me that swordsmen can get a very quick kill by aiming for the inside of the leg. There are some blood vessels there which will drain out very quickly causing unconsciousness and death.
  - nickpsecurity 7y ago
    This one has been making rounds in movies and TV shows like Dexter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femoral_artery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femoral_artery More potential attackers are aware of it now. Whether that's a risk that's going to play out for real is anyone's guess.
- corodra 7y ago
  Baggins-sis that stole the precious.
dkoston 7y ago
We’re not even close to having the tech for bulletproof clothing that’s the same weight as jeans. Most level 4 body armor is either ceramic plates or steel plates. For level 2 (9mm), there are vests as light as 5 lbs. Midweight jeans typically weigh around 1 and would likely weigh 10+ lbs with the lightest level 2 available and be much thicker and stiffer. Along with the invention of new tech, the price point seems at least an order of magnitude off for the foreseeable future.
michaelt 7y ago
A mere $160 will already get you motorcyclists' kevlar-lined jeans [1] - you can even get a kevlar lining inserted into your current clothes [2], for €159. Of course, they're a bit less comfortable than non-lined jeans, as the kevlar doesn't have much stretch; and the manufacturer doesn't explicitly rate them as being bulletproof. I can also assure you the cool factor wears off pretty quickly :) [1] https://www.dragginjeans.com/mens/mens-blue-comfort-slim-fit-draggin-jeans/ https://www.dragginjeans.com/mens/mens-blue-comfort-slim-fit... [2] https://www.rusteprotection.com/ https://www.rusteprotection.com/
dreamcompiler 7y ago
Kevlar gloves are cheap [0]. I use them in the kitchen for chopping and for hot metal work in the studio. Although steel is a poor heat conductor, when blacksmithing I can hold the steel closer to the red-hot area and longer when wearing these gloves. Cowboys also use them for calf roping to prevent rope burns; I used to buy kevlar gloves at farm and ranch stores before Amazon carried them. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Glove-but-Fully-Protection/dp/B075F35D86/ref=mp_s_a_1_7 https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Glove-but-Fully-Protection/dp/...

by cwkoss 7y ago

etrautmann 7y ago

I don't understand why this is cool or what it would protect you from? A dress shirt maybe but who's stabbing or shooting legs?

cwkoss 7y ago
My threat model is less concerned about intentional violence, and more about accidental injury. If I can reduce my chance of accidental death by 1% for a few hundred bucks, that would be cool, if not necessarily economically rational. Oh, I want the dress shirt too! Heck, I'd wear a helmet with a HUD if it was comfortable and socially acceptable.
- A2017U1 7y ago
  At that price point it's entirely rational. > wear a helmet with a HUD if it was comfortable and socially acceptable Google glass suggests you'll be waiting a while, I'll be right there with you though. Maybe in Japan one day?
- stickfigure 7y ago
  Do you require vision correction, and if not, do you wear glasses anyway?
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  > My threat model is less concerned about intentional violence, and more about accidental injury. If I can reduce my chance of accidental death by 1%... We don't live in a world where loaded small arms are distributed about your everyday environment as in video games where they're just laying about on crates which mysteriously clutter offices, and also spontaneously discharge frequently [1]. Under that hypothetical threat model, I will grant that jeans and dress shirts which are casually bullet resistant would be a reasonable response. Instead, a realistic threat model has a huge number of things you could spend your time and money on which would be more effective at keeping you safe. For example, upgrading to a newer car with better safety ratings, and taking extra time to drive slower and more carefully, could be effective in reducing the 0.012% chance you have each year of dying in a motor vehicle accident. That baseline is almost 100 times larger than your (in the US) 0.00015% chance of dying due to a firearm accident. To reduce that already miniscule chance, not keeping a gun in your house, avoiding firing ranges, and avoiding hunting areas would be more effective than everyday Kevlar. [1] Relatively frequent accidental discharge would be an interesting mod for a first-person shooter. It could help teach good muzzle control if you handicap yourself or your teammate before the match even starts.
  - cwkoss 7y ago
    Not accidental bullets, but bits of construction shrapnel, knife or yard tool accidents, etc. Your footnote game mode sounds cool. Could have a 'finger on trigger' toggle and autofire if your reticle at a friendly target with finger on trigger. Make maps that force friendlies to walk infront of each other freqently (halls, etc).
- dublinben 7y ago
  You're much more likely to be injured by an automobile than a weapon like a knife or gun.
  - tomatotomato37 7y ago
    Isn't that why motorcyclist also wear clothes embedded with kevlar?
  - cwkoss 7y ago
    I'd also be interested in clothing that could reduce injury in the event of an automobile attack, but I suspect many of the solutions would be excessively bulky and thus uncomfortable. Anticipatory airbags would be really cool if you could get the false positive rate acceptably low.
scottlegrand2 7y ago
It's mostly magical thinking because it's so very unlikely, but in the odd event of a mass shooter this would come in handy.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
kbenson 7y ago
And I'm kind of at a loss as to why someone would question the desire for this. The statement is that it's literally as comfortable as a regular piece of the clothing, so the only downside here I see is an increased cost. Given that I'm sure some people pay close to or more than $400 for designer versions of jeans, it seems to me to be at least as good an investment of the money as that choice. Put another way, would you pay $1500 for a car that had a bulletproof exterior if it didn't affect the look, feel or handling/visibility? I think a lot more people would opt for that, and for similar reasons. People routinely spend much more money on things with much less utility, so I'm all for it.
- jancsika 7y ago
  What is the tear resistance of the jeans of your fantasy? If they are so resistant that medical grade shears cannot cut through them then the practical utility may drop below zero.
  - noodlesUK 7y ago
    I’ve personally experienced medics trying and failing to cut through fencing kit that’s designed to be stab resistant (ish). It’s not fun at all when you have an injury and they can’t treat it cause of your protective gear.
PaulHoule 7y ago
I met a kendo instructor who told me that swordsmen can get a very quick kill by aiming for the inside of the leg. There are some blood vessels there which will drain out very quickly causing unconsciousness and death.
- nickpsecurity 7y ago
  This one has been making rounds in movies and TV shows like Dexter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femoral_artery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femoral_artery More potential attackers are aware of it now. Whether that's a risk that's going to play out for real is anyone's guess.
corodra 7y ago
Baggins-sis that stole the precious.

dkoston 7y ago

We’re not even close to having the tech for bulletproof clothing that’s the same weight as jeans. Most level 4 body armor is either ceramic plates or steel plates. For level 2 (9mm), there are vests as light as 5 lbs. Midweight jeans typically weigh around 1 and would likely weigh 10+ lbs with the lightest level 2 available and be much thicker and stiffer. Along with the invention of new tech, the price point seems at least an order of magnitude off for the foreseeable future.

michaelt 7y ago

A mere $160 will already get you motorcyclists' kevlar-lined jeans [1] - you can even get a kevlar lining inserted into your current clothes [2], for €159. Of course, they're a bit less comfortable than non-lined jeans, as the kevlar doesn't have much stretch; and the manufacturer doesn't explicitly rate them as being bulletproof. I can also assure you the cool factor wears off pretty quickly :) [1] https://www.dragginjeans.com/mens/mens-blue-comfort-slim-fit-draggin-jeans/ https://www.dragginjeans.com/mens/mens-blue-comfort-slim-fit... [2] https://www.rusteprotection.com/ https://www.rusteprotection.com/

dreamcompiler 7y ago

Kevlar gloves are cheap [0]. I use them in the kitchen for chopping and for hot metal work in the studio. Although steel is a poor heat conductor, when blacksmithing I can hold the steel closer to the red-hot area and longer when wearing these gloves. Cowboys also use them for calf roping to prevent rope burns; I used to buy kevlar gloves at farm and ranch stores before Amazon carried them. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Glove-but-Fully-Protection/dp/B075F35D86/ref=mp_s_a_1_7 https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Glove-but-Fully-Protection/dp/...