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What is your point? Serious question. If you tell me, for example, that Go generics are going to be like C# generics, then I have to be familiar with the full

What is your point? Serious question. If you tell me, for example, that Go generics are going to be like C# generics, then I have to be familiar with the full semantics of C# generics. Essentially you tell me that in order to understand X I have to understand Y first, that's not good. Consumers of your language are not, for the MOST part, PLT nerds.

iainmerrick 7y ago
I’d compare it to e.g. the work on async/await in Rust, where the discussion seems more directly “we like this feature that C# pioneered and JS has adopted, here’s how we plan to adapt it to make it work well with Rust.” Admittedly, the Rust async/await RFC and the Go contracts proposal both discuss prior art in sections towards the end, so they are actually similar in that respect. Maybe it’s really just a question of tone and messaging, and the particular discussions that tend to end up on HN.
- shaded-enmity 7y ago
  Fair point, however I think that you're mistaking language design discussion in a closed group of PLT invested people, and a blog post targeted at general audience. Visiting https://rust-lang.github.io/async-book/ https://rust-lang.github.io/async-book/ I don't see any mentions of neither C# nor JS. The key difference here is the audience.
  - steveklabnik 7y ago
    The async book is in the process of being re-written; I wouldn't be surprised if a comparison to JS ends up in there, given that we have some significant differences and it really trips up a lot of people who come from JS.
jayd16 7y ago
>then I have to be familiar with the full semantics of C# generics Or you could research the very detailed discussion and documentation available on the topic of C# generics.
- shaded-enmity 7y ago
  How is your suggestion not equivalent to "be familiar with full semantics of C# generics"? How does that help me with being productive using Go's implementation of generics, which has fundamentally different type system and syntax to begin with?
  - jayd16 7y ago
    You're asking why general knowledge of generics and the pros and cons of various implementations would give you better understanding into the specific trade offs made by Go's implementation? You can't imagine why?
vkou 7y ago
> then I have to be familiar with the full semantics of C# generics. Presumably, by the time the feature ships, the golang.org/doc entry on generics will not consist of just 'lol, they are just like C# generics, docs.microsoft.com, chum'
mcguire 7y ago
The big advantage is that PLT nerds (Who else are you going to learn a programming language from?) already know the ugly, hairy bits of Y and how to work around them. The alternative is for X to invent new ugly, hairy bits.

iainmerrick 7y ago

I’d compare it to e.g. the work on async/await in Rust, where the discussion seems more directly “we like this feature that C# pioneered and JS has adopted, here’s how we plan to adapt it to make it work well with Rust.” Admittedly, the Rust async/await RFC and the Go contracts proposal both discuss prior art in sections towards the end, so they are actually similar in that respect. Maybe it’s really just a question of tone and messaging, and the particular discussions that tend to end up on HN.

shaded-enmity 7y ago
Fair point, however I think that you're mistaking language design discussion in a closed group of PLT invested people, and a blog post targeted at general audience. Visiting https://rust-lang.github.io/async-book/ https://rust-lang.github.io/async-book/ I don't see any mentions of neither C# nor JS. The key difference here is the audience.
- steveklabnik 7y ago
  The async book is in the process of being re-written; I wouldn't be surprised if a comparison to JS ends up in there, given that we have some significant differences and it really trips up a lot of people who come from JS.

jayd16 7y ago

>then I have to be familiar with the full semantics of C# generics Or you could research the very detailed discussion and documentation available on the topic of C# generics.

shaded-enmity 7y ago
How is your suggestion not equivalent to "be familiar with full semantics of C# generics"? How does that help me with being productive using Go's implementation of generics, which has fundamentally different type system and syntax to begin with?
- jayd16 7y ago
  You're asking why general knowledge of generics and the pros and cons of various implementations would give you better understanding into the specific trade offs made by Go's implementation? You can't imagine why?

vkou 7y ago

> then I have to be familiar with the full semantics of C# generics. Presumably, by the time the feature ships, the golang.org/doc entry on generics will not consist of just 'lol, they are just like C# generics, docs.microsoft.com, chum'

mcguire 7y ago

The big advantage is that PLT nerds (Who else are you going to learn a programming language from?) already know the ugly, hairy bits of Y and how to work around them. The alternative is for X to invent new ugly, hairy bits.