4 ms·

[I'm a bus proponent, but...] It's turned out to be very politically difficult to establish and (just as importantly) enforce bus lanes in communities in the U

[I'm a bus proponent, but...] It's turned out to be very politically difficult to establish and (just as importantly) enforce bus lanes in communities in the US. People get very upset at the prospect of giving up either street parking or travel lanes, and local politicians and the traffic enforcement bureaucracy has mostly sided with the people who complain. The result is either no bus lanes, or part-time bus lanes with no effective enforcement, which is basically the same as no bus lanes. A bus that's able to use bus lanes (and possibly transit signal priority) to bypass traffic is a great thing, and would be appealing to people across the socioeconomic spectrum. A bus that's stuck in the same traffic as the cars has no benefit other than cost, and will only appeal to those who can't afford to maintain a car or are very ideologically committed to transit. Buses would be amazing with bus lanes in congested areas and automated camera-based enforcement of those lanes. However, the inability of the political system to make that happen even in Manhattan makes me fairly pessimistic for that outcome in other places. I still think it's worth investing in buses for those who need them, but if they can't bypass traffic they will be stuck at a low mode share almost everywhere.

jimmaswell 7y ago
I'd rather a bus driver sit in heavy traffic while I get to use my phone/laptop than be the one driving. For going to conventions I still take the bus even though I have a car now.
AnthonyMouse 7y ago
The problem with bus lanes is that they require failure in order to operate. If you implement bus lanes and they succeed in relieving traffic congestion but the congestion was the only reason people weren't driving then people go back to driving and you go back to having congestion. There is no way for them to actually relieve the congestion because having congestion is the method by which they operate. But they can make it worse by wasting a travel lane during the times of day when there would have been enough road capacity if not for the bus lane. If you want to make buses actually work, make them work like Uber. You go to the bus stop where there is a screen you can input your destination (or you use your phone), and the nearest minibus going in your direction stops to pick you up, which each carries eight passengers rather than forty. Then it drops you off at your actual destination instead of four blocks from there, and picks you up faster to begin with because there are five times as many buses of a fifth the size and they can be diverted from nearby routes to pick you up as soon as you summon them. At that point they're almost as good as a car most of the time, only they cost a lot less and only take up an eighth of the space on the road per passenger. And you don't have to operate huge wasteful 40-passenger vehicles during off-peak hours just to carry 3 passengers.
- VintageCool 7y ago
  If you paint a lane red and make it buses-only, that gives commuters an alternative to driving. Traffic might still be terrible and congested, but commuters have the option to skip the traffic and take the bus instead. Uber-style minibuses don't work because the human bus driver is expensive. Once you're already paying for a driver, it makes sense to make the bus full-size so that you can maximize the number of riders per bus.
  - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
    > If you paint a lane red and make it buses-only, that gives commuters an alternative to driving. Traffic might still be terrible and congested, but commuters have the option to skip the traffic and take the bus instead. Except for all the ones who don't, because one of the endpoints isn't anywhere near the bus route even if part of the path between them goes along it. > Uber-style minibuses don't work because the human bus driver is expensive. Apparently they do, as demonstrated by all the people who use Uber in preference to buses. > Once you're already paying for a driver, it makes sense to make the bus full-size so that you can maximize the number of riders per bus. Unless that requires you to have less frequent service that covers fewer areas, which in turn causes people to choose single passenger cars over your buses. You can also eliminate the driver cost by doing what Uber was originally billed as -- ride sharing. You're going to drive your car from your home to your workplace and back, but if you get up fifteen minutes earlier you can make a few bucks by picking up some of your neighbors and dropping them off at work. That's a lot less than the cost of a full-time bus driver with benefits but at scale it still results in a fraction of the number of cars on the road during rush hour.

jimmaswell 7y ago

I'd rather a bus driver sit in heavy traffic while I get to use my phone/laptop than be the one driving. For going to conventions I still take the bus even though I have a car now.

AnthonyMouse 7y ago

The problem with bus lanes is that they require failure in order to operate. If you implement bus lanes and they succeed in relieving traffic congestion but the congestion was the only reason people weren't driving then people go back to driving and you go back to having congestion. There is no way for them to actually relieve the congestion because having congestion is the method by which they operate. But they can make it worse by wasting a travel lane during the times of day when there would have been enough road capacity if not for the bus lane. If you want to make buses actually work, make them work like Uber. You go to the bus stop where there is a screen you can input your destination (or you use your phone), and the nearest minibus going in your direction stops to pick you up, which each carries eight passengers rather than forty. Then it drops you off at your actual destination instead of four blocks from there, and picks you up faster to begin with because there are five times as many buses of a fifth the size and they can be diverted from nearby routes to pick you up as soon as you summon them. At that point they're almost as good as a car most of the time, only they cost a lot less and only take up an eighth of the space on the road per passenger. And you don't have to operate huge wasteful 40-passenger vehicles during off-peak hours just to carry 3 passengers.

VintageCool 7y ago
If you paint a lane red and make it buses-only, that gives commuters an alternative to driving. Traffic might still be terrible and congested, but commuters have the option to skip the traffic and take the bus instead. Uber-style minibuses don't work because the human bus driver is expensive. Once you're already paying for a driver, it makes sense to make the bus full-size so that you can maximize the number of riders per bus.
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago
  > If you paint a lane red and make it buses-only, that gives commuters an alternative to driving. Traffic might still be terrible and congested, but commuters have the option to skip the traffic and take the bus instead. Except for all the ones who don't, because one of the endpoints isn't anywhere near the bus route even if part of the path between them goes along it. > Uber-style minibuses don't work because the human bus driver is expensive. Apparently they do, as demonstrated by all the people who use Uber in preference to buses. > Once you're already paying for a driver, it makes sense to make the bus full-size so that you can maximize the number of riders per bus. Unless that requires you to have less frequent service that covers fewer areas, which in turn causes people to choose single passenger cars over your buses. You can also eliminate the driver cost by doing what Uber was originally billed as -- ride sharing. You're going to drive your car from your home to your workplace and back, but if you get up fifteen minutes earlier you can make a few bucks by picking up some of your neighbors and dropping them off at work. That's a lot less than the cost of a full-time bus driver with benefits but at scale it still results in a fraction of the number of cars on the road during rush hour.