3 ms·

> Why do buses not count? I think at least in some places in the US, this is a class thing, though few people will admit it. Buses are associated with lower-c

by ac29 7y ago

> Why do buses not count? I think at least in some places in the US, this is a class thing, though few people will admit it. Buses are associated with lower-class people, whereas rail (especially heavy rail) is associated with middle class people.

dredmorbius 7y ago
Urban busses, yes. Commuter busses (public agency or private "Google Bus" variants) not so much. There are transit districts which run entirely different coaches on commute vs. urban or general transit routes. Commute have comfortable seats, overhead briefcase stowage, reading lights, and. often wifi. Urban transit: hard seats, no amenities, often standing-room only.
rayiner 7y ago
Which ironically results in massive public subsidies for middle class people when heavy rail is operated at huge losses.
- Fricken 7y ago
  Excepting a few toll roads, roads for cars operate exclusively at a loss. They recoup no revenue at all, and are funded entirely by the public.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    Sure, but (1) roads benefit everyone, while rail benefits wealthier people disproportionately; and (2) rail is subsidized much more heavily per passenger mile than driving. You often hear that we spend much more on roads than rail, which is true, but we drive much much more than we take the train. For example, the D.C. metro receives about a $0.42 per passenger mile subsidy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/not-a-dime-more-for-metro--yet/2016/06/03/9a04ca6a-1ed0-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/not-a-dime-more-for-.... Meanwhile, state and local governments spend $155 billion on roads, about half of which is paid for by usage fees (tolls and gas tax). Given the 3 trillion miles driven on roads every year, that works out to just $0.024 per passenger mile of subsidy: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pressroom/fhwa1704.cfm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pressroom/fhwa1704.cfm. The cleaning lady who drives 10 miles to work costs the government $0.24 for each trip. When a white collar worker takes Metro 10 miles to work,[1] it costs the government $4.20. [1] The median Metro rider has a household income of over $100,000 and 80% have a college degree. That's because the people who take Metro can afford to buy expensive housing near a Metro station, and go to white collar jobs downtown. The cleaning lady, and other lower income workers, can't afford to live near a Metro station, and many work the 90% of jobs in the metro area that aren't downtown.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]

by ac29 7y ago

dredmorbius 7y ago

Urban busses, yes. Commuter busses (public agency or private "Google Bus" variants) not so much. There are transit districts which run entirely different coaches on commute vs. urban or general transit routes. Commute have comfortable seats, overhead briefcase stowage, reading lights, and. often wifi. Urban transit: hard seats, no amenities, often standing-room only.

rayiner 7y ago

Which ironically results in massive public subsidies for middle class people when heavy rail is operated at huge losses.

Fricken 7y ago
Excepting a few toll roads, roads for cars operate exclusively at a loss. They recoup no revenue at all, and are funded entirely by the public.
- rayiner 7y ago
  Sure, but (1) roads benefit everyone, while rail benefits wealthier people disproportionately; and (2) rail is subsidized much more heavily per passenger mile than driving. You often hear that we spend much more on roads than rail, which is true, but we drive much much more than we take the train. For example, the D.C. metro receives about a $0.42 per passenger mile subsidy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/not-a-dime-more-for-metro--yet/2016/06/03/9a04ca6a-1ed0-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/not-a-dime-more-for-.... Meanwhile, state and local governments spend $155 billion on roads, about half of which is paid for by usage fees (tolls and gas tax). Given the 3 trillion miles driven on roads every year, that works out to just $0.024 per passenger mile of subsidy: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pressroom/fhwa1704.cfm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pressroom/fhwa1704.cfm. The cleaning lady who drives 10 miles to work costs the government $0.24 for each trip. When a white collar worker takes Metro 10 miles to work,[1] it costs the government $4.20. [1] The median Metro rider has a household income of over $100,000 and 80% have a college degree. That's because the people who take Metro can afford to buy expensive housing near a Metro station, and go to white collar jobs downtown. The cleaning lady, and other lower income workers, can't afford to live near a Metro station, and many work the 90% of jobs in the metro area that aren't downtown.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]