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I would say the theft of attention and concentration is a cancer on society, but I agree overall. To those who say there is no other model, you are not correct

I would say the theft of attention and concentration is a cancer on society, but I agree overall. To those who say there is no other model, you are not correct.

buboard 7y ago
The internet is not ready to give up on ads/it depends on it. Subscriptions can be scammy - and they need a lot of advertising themselves ironically : paywalls - “support us on patreon” - “please call between 1 and 2pm australia time to cancel your subscription”. We could try micropayments, probably in the form of crypropayments, probably unaccounted for tax purposes (which is the main obstacle to their acceptance. They can be accounted for via alternative means, eg. by correlating traffic statistics). Until then ads are the most democratic to monetize small websites in the absence of VC money. Unless you can suggest better ways - i d love to try them.
jkeuhlen 7y ago
What are the other models that exist and are currently working? As someone who is looking to build a free consumer product, I don't know what else exists that can offset my costs other than advertising. I hate paywalls just as much as advertising, so I'm opposed to just charging for access.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  I'd say provide both models but be light on ads. If people are going to use adblock, you can't stop them and they'd never click on ads anyway. If people aren't using adblock then treat them with respect like most of the modern web isn't. Put focus on making your premium experience better because these are obviously your most loyal customers.
- klum 7y ago
  If you expect income, you're not really looking to build a free product, are you? Seems to me, a paywall (or similar) is the honest way; those who get value from your product give value back, in the most direct and transparent way possible. (I know I'm trivializing the question; I'm not in your situation and I don't know the perfect model for your product. But I disagree with just lumping together "paywalls" and "advertising" in the same category of "non-desirable things".)
  - GenghisSean 7y ago
    > If you expect income, you're not really looking to build a free product, are you? You hit it right on the nose. I'd rather pay not to have strings attached than get something free with hidden other costs.
- philwelch 7y ago
  It’s not a product unless people are willing to pay for it. That’s the long and short of it.
_virtu 7y ago
I haven't read the article yet, but I was thinking about this yesterday. I was sitting in my car and a sign that had "RENT TO OWN" on it where "RENT TO" was flashing. I felt offended by the fact that my attention was taken from me all for the sake of drawing me in to spend my money on something I didn't care about or need to know about during that time. I know that there are physical limitations on what you can say is or is not acceptable for an advert; the implications on free speech would probably be too much to ever be able to pass any meaningful changes, but, to me, advertising is an assault on your senses that you have no control over. It made me think of a future where AR is highly prevalent. What will your life be like? Will you have to pay to not have adverts stuck in your face all the time? To me human attention is valuable and it should be protected. I'm concerned for future generations as technology is going to progress further. I don't have a full argument formed, but in my opinion we should rethink what should be allowed in regards to advertising in the internet age. Why is advertising required at this point with services like google? Could you just have a regulated service directory that operates similarly to google instead? To those of you that are reading, I get it, yeah we wouldn't have services today without advertising, but now that we have technology, isn't most advertising antiquated? If I really do need something, I'll look for it and let technology bring the service or product to me.
- buboard 7y ago
  that is making the case for targeted advertising
specialist 7y ago
I also believe we live in an attention economy. The OC is a good rant, list of grievances. Missing from his cancer analogy is the feedback loop. The cancer is monetization and preferential attachment (recommendation engines) leading to outrage culture. Any remedy, mitigation would interrupt or add friction to that feedback loop. No more retweets. Require all statements to be sourced. Hinkley's notion (elsewhere) of not allowing ads to be treated as biz expense. And so forth. None of those things will happen. Until... Advertising today is like petroleum wildcatting in the early days. The bottom will fall out when everyone wises up to the con. Then investors will demand US Govt intervene with regulation, to save the market.

I would say the theft of attention and concentration is a cancer on society, but I agree overall. To those who say there is no other model, you are not correct.

buboard 7y ago

The internet is not ready to give up on ads/it depends on it. Subscriptions can be scammy - and they need a lot of advertising themselves ironically : paywalls - “support us on patreon” - “please call between 1 and 2pm australia time to cancel your subscription”. We could try micropayments, probably in the form of crypropayments, probably unaccounted for tax purposes (which is the main obstacle to their acceptance. They can be accounted for via alternative means, eg. by correlating traffic statistics). Until then ads are the most democratic to monetize small websites in the absence of VC money. Unless you can suggest better ways - i d love to try them.

jkeuhlen 7y ago

What are the other models that exist and are currently working? As someone who is looking to build a free consumer product, I don't know what else exists that can offset my costs other than advertising. I hate paywalls just as much as advertising, so I'm opposed to just charging for access.

cameronbrown 7y ago
I'd say provide both models but be light on ads. If people are going to use adblock, you can't stop them and they'd never click on ads anyway. If people aren't using adblock then treat them with respect like most of the modern web isn't. Put focus on making your premium experience better because these are obviously your most loyal customers.
klum 7y ago
If you expect income, you're not really looking to build a free product, are you? Seems to me, a paywall (or similar) is the honest way; those who get value from your product give value back, in the most direct and transparent way possible. (I know I'm trivializing the question; I'm not in your situation and I don't know the perfect model for your product. But I disagree with just lumping together "paywalls" and "advertising" in the same category of "non-desirable things".)
- GenghisSean 7y ago
  > If you expect income, you're not really looking to build a free product, are you? You hit it right on the nose. I'd rather pay not to have strings attached than get something free with hidden other costs.
philwelch 7y ago
It’s not a product unless people are willing to pay for it. That’s the long and short of it.

_virtu 7y ago

I haven't read the article yet, but I was thinking about this yesterday. I was sitting in my car and a sign that had "RENT TO OWN" on it where "RENT TO" was flashing. I felt offended by the fact that my attention was taken from me all for the sake of drawing me in to spend my money on something I didn't care about or need to know about during that time. I know that there are physical limitations on what you can say is or is not acceptable for an advert; the implications on free speech would probably be too much to ever be able to pass any meaningful changes, but, to me, advertising is an assault on your senses that you have no control over. It made me think of a future where AR is highly prevalent. What will your life be like? Will you have to pay to not have adverts stuck in your face all the time? To me human attention is valuable and it should be protected. I'm concerned for future generations as technology is going to progress further. I don't have a full argument formed, but in my opinion we should rethink what should be allowed in regards to advertising in the internet age. Why is advertising required at this point with services like google? Could you just have a regulated service directory that operates similarly to google instead? To those of you that are reading, I get it, yeah we wouldn't have services today without advertising, but now that we have technology, isn't most advertising antiquated? If I really do need something, I'll look for it and let technology bring the service or product to me.

buboard 7y ago
that is making the case for targeted advertising

specialist 7y ago

I also believe we live in an attention economy. The OC is a good rant, list of grievances. Missing from his cancer analogy is the feedback loop. The cancer is monetization and preferential attachment (recommendation engines) leading to outrage culture. Any remedy, mitigation would interrupt or add friction to that feedback loop. No more retweets. Require all statements to be sourced. Hinkley's notion (elsewhere) of not allowing ads to be treated as biz expense. And so forth. None of those things will happen. Until... Advertising today is like petroleum wildcatting in the early days. The bottom will fall out when everyone wises up to the con. Then investors will demand US Govt intervene with regulation, to save the market.