7 ms·

This whole submarine vegan agenda is annoying. Yes, people will choose to go with the artificial beef. No it's not going to replace beef. It's a subsitute. A f

by monksy 7y ago

This whole submarine vegan agenda is annoying. Yes, people will choose to go with the artificial beef. No it's not going to replace beef. It's a subsitute. A few things: 1. Cows are not optimized to make meat: Animals aren't a food factory. Animals eat other animals. We are animals and happen to have a wide variety of what we can eat 2. There are distinct benefits from eating meat (vitamins), in which it's incredibly inefficient from getting them from plants 3. The feedlots and environmental problems, that's an issue of our economy. Theres a particular expectation on output. 4. The impossible burger: The author is incredibly disingenuous about the comparison. He is trying to claim that the burger has so many bad aspects but completely ignores how ultra-processed the beyond burger is. 5. The author is completely obsessed on cows. There are MANY more alternatives to cows that you can eat.

parliament32 7y ago
The amount of vegan propaganda out there is outstanding. The thing about these burgers is: 1) they taste like ass 2) they're super-processed full-of-refined-oils junk food I don't doubt we'll see these phased out of restaurants pretty quick. Right now they're a new fad to try, but sooner or later omnivores will realize there are literally no benefits to eating this crap over actual beef. Only the true vegans will be left, and they're just not enough of a market to sustain the supply chain problems that come with having yet another type of patty (see: the McRib). The funniest part is actual vegetarian burgers aren't even that bad. Yeah they taste different than beef, but they're in the same format, taste fine, and are quite a bit healthier. This pretend-meat is just bad.
dashundchen 7y ago
In the article the author talks about eating both a beef burger and cheese, so I don't think he has a "vegan agenda". > 2. There are distinct benefits from eating meat (vitamins), in which it's incredibly inefficient from getting them from plants Raising meat with today's common production methods (feed lots) is incredibly inefficient. In fact, a plant based diet can meet all nutritional requirements with just B12 vitamins. Many vitamins and minerals in meat and dairy are there because of supplementation, not because they're natural. > 3. The feedlots and environmental problems, that's an issue of our economy. Theres a particular expectation on output. Which is why plant based diets, both processed foods like these burgers and un/ lightly processed (beans, nuts, tofu and tempeh, pulses) are a solution. They can be grown much more efficiently than meat and take a huge load off of our environment and emissions. > 5. The author is completely obsessed on cows. There are MANY more alternatives to cows that you can eat. Cows are also some of the worst animal agriculture product emissions wise and a good chunk of the standard American diet. It's also definitely the star of these fast food restaurants he discusses that these plant based meats are aiming for.
- simonsarris 7y ago
  There is vastly more than B12 at stake with vegan diets. https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/micronutrients-mental-health/ https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/micronutrients-mental-health/ Almost by definition it would be weird if vegan diets were not diets full of deficiencies, since they do not partake in wide amounts of food groups eaten for at least millenia. (And we have no record of any vegan societies, though a few vegetarian -ish ones.)
- Mirioron 7y ago
  >In fact, a plant based diet can meet all nutritional requirements with just B12 vitamins. How expensive is that? How much variety do you have? How easy is it to not do correctly? Any time I've looked into vegan diets it seems as though you don't have all that much choice if you want to get your vitamins and amino acids. You can live on a poor diet for a long time, but it will do damage, so whether this type of vegan diet is easy to screw up is also very important.
- monksy 7y ago
  > just B12 vitamins Those require processing, and often times the supplement industry isn't exactly that clean. (I'm looking at you cheap fish oil sups) Also you should consider the efficency of what the equillence of plans would take. (More plants requires more land+water, which requires more infrastructure, more transportation, etc). Also, don't forget about soil quality and erosion. You can't just grow infinitely on the same land. Let's not forget yield loss due to pests and diease. Cows are huge and they feed a lot of people with very little waste. (Assuming you don't throw out the organs and bones) --- Overall, I would be interested in a thorough look at both sides per person. Most of the articles I've seen from vegetarians and vegans have been completely ignoring the logistics involved and overall impact.
  - moreranchplease 7y ago
    You should really look into this more. We already grow more than enough plants to feed the world. The vast majority of them are fed to livestock. Just like the vast majority of water is used for livestock. Just like the vast majority of antibiotics are used for livestock. Just like the vast majority of land is used for livestock.

by monksy 7y ago

parliament32 7y ago

The amount of vegan propaganda out there is outstanding. The thing about these burgers is: 1) they taste like ass 2) they're super-processed full-of-refined-oils junk food I don't doubt we'll see these phased out of restaurants pretty quick. Right now they're a new fad to try, but sooner or later omnivores will realize there are literally no benefits to eating this crap over actual beef. Only the true vegans will be left, and they're just not enough of a market to sustain the supply chain problems that come with having yet another type of patty (see: the McRib). The funniest part is actual vegetarian burgers aren't even that bad. Yeah they taste different than beef, but they're in the same format, taste fine, and are quite a bit healthier. This pretend-meat is just bad.

dashundchen 7y ago

In the article the author talks about eating both a beef burger and cheese, so I don't think he has a "vegan agenda". > 2. There are distinct benefits from eating meat (vitamins), in which it's incredibly inefficient from getting them from plants Raising meat with today's common production methods (feed lots) is incredibly inefficient. In fact, a plant based diet can meet all nutritional requirements with just B12 vitamins. Many vitamins and minerals in meat and dairy are there because of supplementation, not because they're natural. > 3. The feedlots and environmental problems, that's an issue of our economy. Theres a particular expectation on output. Which is why plant based diets, both processed foods like these burgers and un/ lightly processed (beans, nuts, tofu and tempeh, pulses) are a solution. They can be grown much more efficiently than meat and take a huge load off of our environment and emissions. > 5. The author is completely obsessed on cows. There are MANY more alternatives to cows that you can eat. Cows are also some of the worst animal agriculture product emissions wise and a good chunk of the standard American diet. It's also definitely the star of these fast food restaurants he discusses that these plant based meats are aiming for.

simonsarris 7y ago
There is vastly more than B12 at stake with vegan diets. https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/micronutrients-mental-health/ https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/micronutrients-mental-health/ Almost by definition it would be weird if vegan diets were not diets full of deficiencies, since they do not partake in wide amounts of food groups eaten for at least millenia. (And we have no record of any vegan societies, though a few vegetarian -ish ones.)
Mirioron 7y ago
>In fact, a plant based diet can meet all nutritional requirements with just B12 vitamins. How expensive is that? How much variety do you have? How easy is it to not do correctly? Any time I've looked into vegan diets it seems as though you don't have all that much choice if you want to get your vitamins and amino acids. You can live on a poor diet for a long time, but it will do damage, so whether this type of vegan diet is easy to screw up is also very important.
monksy 7y ago
> just B12 vitamins Those require processing, and often times the supplement industry isn't exactly that clean. (I'm looking at you cheap fish oil sups) Also you should consider the efficency of what the equillence of plans would take. (More plants requires more land+water, which requires more infrastructure, more transportation, etc). Also, don't forget about soil quality and erosion. You can't just grow infinitely on the same land. Let's not forget yield loss due to pests and diease. Cows are huge and they feed a lot of people with very little waste. (Assuming you don't throw out the organs and bones) --- Overall, I would be interested in a thorough look at both sides per person. Most of the articles I've seen from vegetarians and vegans have been completely ignoring the logistics involved and overall impact.
- moreranchplease 7y ago
  You should really look into this more. We already grow more than enough plants to feed the world. The vast majority of them are fed to livestock. Just like the vast majority of water is used for livestock. Just like the vast majority of antibiotics are used for livestock. Just like the vast majority of land is used for livestock.