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I'm actually not terribly surprised to hear this. Bret Weinstein may have been (and continue to be) a lifelong liberal, but from what I know about him, I wouldn
by geebee 7y ago
I'm actually not terribly surprised to hear this. Bret Weinstein may have been (and continue to be) a lifelong liberal, but from what I know about him, I wouldn't expect him or professors like him to discriminate against conservative students. Nor would I expect Nicolas Christakis to discriminate against conservatives, I don't know him other than by what I've seen and heard on the media, but this would seem very out of character. Yes, professors lean left, but these are still, by and large, people who devoted their lives to scholarly pursuits, and often show a very deep and principled adherence to the pursuit of truth, where data and analysis takes you. Professors have long been further to the left of mainstream society and their students, but until very recently, conservatives and republicans, in polls, have viewed universities as having a very positive effect on society. The collapse and political divide is recent. It is driven, to an extent, by a effort to associate liberal professors with the very worst attributes of "cancel" culture. Unfortunately, while I continue to feel positively about universities, I can no longer agree that this narrative is entirely fabricated, either.
My understanding is that college administrators tend to run more left wing than college professors, and they may contribute more to the campus climate than professors do - their ranks have swelled considerably in recent years. I also suspect that professors self-censor, and that students do this as well - not just conservatives, but moderates and liberals. I brought up Bret Weinstein for a reason - liberal professors giving conservative students bad grades simply to punish politics they don't like would be reprehensible, but I don't think this is the elephant in the room.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago> My understanding is that college administrators tend to run more left wing than college professors, and they may contribute more to the campus climate than professors do... We have 15% women in STEM, and we're told that it's because of residues of the oppressive patriarchy. Well, we have less than 15% conservatives among the faculty of social science departments, and that's because... ?
- tdb7893 7y agoGender and political ideology are very different. They're the same in that they are generally social constructs but the reasons people align with one or the other and how society views them isn't the same.
- deogeo 7y agoI don't think AnimalMuppet is saying they're the same, but that, if we were half as motivated at finding reasons why conservatives feel discouraged from some academic fields, as we are for why women are, we'd come up with something. Especially since the left:right ratios used to be more even [1] (please excuse the source), so it doesn't look like conservatives are intrinsically against academic careers. While as gender equality increases, STEM fields get more gender-imbalanced [2]. [1] https://www.dailywire.com/news/30222/how-politically-biased-are-universities-new-study-james-barrett https://www.dailywire.com/news/30222/how-politically-biased-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-equality_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-equality_paradox
- caconym_ 7y agoWell, since female is something you are, while conservative is something you think, I imagine the reason for the latter discrepancy is probably quite different from the reason for the former. Is that what you were going to say? It looks like you forgot to conclude your point.
- deogeo 7y ago> I imagine Well put.
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoSo you think it's wrong to not hire someone because they're female, but it's fine to not hire them because they're conservative? That's where you draw your lines? And if so, what is your justification for drawing them there?
- cvla 7y agoI think GP's point is that ideas are more fluid than gender. Professors can be influenced by their environment and change their mind. Most people do. By contrast you don't become male by being surrounded by men. Also, ideas influence your life choices. That there would be few pacifists in the army doesn't prove that the army discriminates against pacifists. Maybe pacifists are just not interested by these kinds of careers. That doesn't prove that there is no discrimination against conservatives, but it shows that there is a difference between an ideological minority and a physical one — GP's point I think.
- geebee 7y agoI'm sure you're correct that ideas are more fluid than gender, and this is a major aside... but I'm not convinced ideas are quite as fluid as they seem. Have you felt life would be a lot easier if you didn't believe something was true? I've read that some students and faculty on college campuses feel like "closet" conservatives (this certainly isn't the only place where people feel at risk for their ideas, and it certainly doesn't always go in this direction). But I'm not sure people are 100% in control of what they believe. Sometimes, you look at the data, you consider the analysis, and you reach a conclusion that you know would harm friendships, alienate you from your community, and so forth. This often happened in religious contexts - for example, I'm sure a lot of people who were/are atheists in environments where this is a socially abhorrent idea aren't pleased with their conclusion, and keep it very close to their chest, revealing this only to very trusted and close friends and family. But this sort of belief isn't really voluntary - it's more mutable than many other traits, but it's not entirely fluid, either. In short, I think that ideological minorities may have something in common with minorities in general - though not everything in common. For instance, it's a lot easier to hide, though being forced to listen to and agree with things (either explicitly or through your silence) actually does take a psychic toll after a while.