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It's kind of ridiculous that the US's response to its own inability to negotiate drug prices is to ... pawn its citizens off on Canadian supply without resolve

by r00fus 7y ago

It's kind of ridiculous that the US's response to its own inability to negotiate drug prices is to ... pawn its citizens off on Canadian supply without resolve the root cause. Sure, Canada could make a positive spin for this, but it's possible it puts their pricing negotiation with big Pharma at risk. All in all, a cowardly "solution" that will likely result in all sorts of unintended consequences.

dantheman 7y ago
The solution is to allow people to order drugs from anywhere.
- basch 7y ago
  An american company develops an american drug, manufactures it in america, ships it to canada, and then its legal to go buy in canada? Instead of fixing the price discrepancy in the first place. Its just another goofy legal loophole to avoid adressing the issue.
  - chimeracoder 7y ago
    > Its just another goofy legal loophole to avoid adressing the issue. It's not a legal loophole. It ensures that the price of the drugs in the US will never be more than the price of the drugs in Canada (plus any additional costs of importing). Almost nobody will actually import the drugs from Canada, but the legality of it provides sufficient market pressure on pharmaceutical companies that they wouldn't be able to charge 100x the amount in the US that they would in Canada.
    - basch 7y ago
      > It ensures that the price of the drugs in the US will never be more than the price of the drugs in Canada Then why wouldnt you just make that the law without the silly roundabout shipping ruse? Its using trade law to circumvent patent law.
      - chimeracoder 7y ago
        > Then why wouldnt you just make that the law without the silly roundabout shipping ruse? If you read TFA, that's what they're talking about doing. > Its using trade law to circumvent patent law. Not at all; the restriction on drug reimports has nothing to do with patents.
        basch 7y ago
        There is absolutely a relationship between intellectual property law and trade law. The restriction in drug import exists to make the patent effective. Its the same as Costco vs Omega. Import rights are intrinsically intertwined with ownership and sale rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_S.A._v._Costco_Wholesale_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_S.A._v._Costco_Wholesale....
        chimeracoder 7y ago
        > There is absolutely a relationship between intellectual property law and trade law. The restriction in drug import exists to make the patent effective. No, this is a common misconception. If FooCorp manufactures a drug in the US and exports it to the US, there is no inherent patent issue with a US entity purchasing it from the Canadian middleman.
        basch 7y ago
        The two laws work together, Ying and yang. You can't analyze one half in isolation. I dont know why you italicized patent, in that example it's a trade issue precisely because the patent doesnt cross boarders.
chimeracoder 7y ago
> It's kind of ridiculous that the US's response to its own inability to negotiate drug prices is to ... pawn its citizens off on Canadian supply without resolve the root cause. Canada's ability to "negotiate" prices stems from the fact that the US is the single largest market for drugs, accounting for the bulk of revenues that pharmaceutical companies make worldwide. If drug companies couldn't sell to the US at the high prices they currently do, they wouldn't be able to manage the relatively low prices that they offer to Canada and other countries.
- r00fus 7y ago
  Do you think folks in the US should be proud of subsidizing the rest of the world? Maybe the US should allow governments to negotiate drug prices.
  - chimeracoder 7y ago
    > Do you think folks in the US should be proud of subsidizing the rest of the world? I don't know what "pride" has anything to do with it. The US does subsidize the rest of the world, implicitly, which is why any effort to reduce drug prices in the US will result in other countries paying more, in the long run. > Maybe the US should allow governments to negotiate drug prices. I don't know what you mean by "allow governments to negotiate drug prices". The US doesn't have any say in whether other countries negotiate prices domestically.
    - ddingus 7y ago
      Many of those other countries have a much cheaper health care system that pools national risk and cost. That, when coupled with bulk pricing pressure negotiations, is very likely to mean marginal increases, if anything.
    - r00fus 7y ago
      > I don't know what you mean by "allow governments to negotiate drug prices". The US doesn't have any say in whether other countries negotiate prices domestically. State and the Federal governments. The USG isn't the only governmental body in the USA. All are essentially blocked from negotiations by Federal law/policy. https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2019/02/01/to-control-drug-prices-states-may-have-to-face-off-against-feds https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...

by r00fus 7y ago

dantheman 7y ago

The solution is to allow people to order drugs from anywhere.

basch 7y ago
An american company develops an american drug, manufactures it in america, ships it to canada, and then its legal to go buy in canada? Instead of fixing the price discrepancy in the first place. Its just another goofy legal loophole to avoid adressing the issue.
- chimeracoder 7y ago
  > Its just another goofy legal loophole to avoid adressing the issue. It's not a legal loophole. It ensures that the price of the drugs in the US will never be more than the price of the drugs in Canada (plus any additional costs of importing). Almost nobody will actually import the drugs from Canada, but the legality of it provides sufficient market pressure on pharmaceutical companies that they wouldn't be able to charge 100x the amount in the US that they would in Canada.
  - basch 7y ago
    > It ensures that the price of the drugs in the US will never be more than the price of the drugs in Canada Then why wouldnt you just make that the law without the silly roundabout shipping ruse? Its using trade law to circumvent patent law.
    - chimeracoder 7y ago
      > Then why wouldnt you just make that the law without the silly roundabout shipping ruse? If you read TFA, that's what they're talking about doing. > Its using trade law to circumvent patent law. Not at all; the restriction on drug reimports has nothing to do with patents.
      - basch 7y ago
        There is absolutely a relationship between intellectual property law and trade law. The restriction in drug import exists to make the patent effective. Its the same as Costco vs Omega. Import rights are intrinsically intertwined with ownership and sale rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_S.A._v._Costco_Wholesale_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_S.A._v._Costco_Wholesale....
        chimeracoder 7y ago
        > There is absolutely a relationship between intellectual property law and trade law. The restriction in drug import exists to make the patent effective. No, this is a common misconception. If FooCorp manufactures a drug in the US and exports it to the US, there is no inherent patent issue with a US entity purchasing it from the Canadian middleman.
        basch 7y ago
        The two laws work together, Ying and yang. You can't analyze one half in isolation. I dont know why you italicized patent, in that example it's a trade issue precisely because the patent doesnt cross boarders.

chimeracoder 7y ago

> It's kind of ridiculous that the US's response to its own inability to negotiate drug prices is to ... pawn its citizens off on Canadian supply without resolve the root cause. Canada's ability to "negotiate" prices stems from the fact that the US is the single largest market for drugs, accounting for the bulk of revenues that pharmaceutical companies make worldwide. If drug companies couldn't sell to the US at the high prices they currently do, they wouldn't be able to manage the relatively low prices that they offer to Canada and other countries.

r00fus 7y ago
Do you think folks in the US should be proud of subsidizing the rest of the world? Maybe the US should allow governments to negotiate drug prices.
- chimeracoder 7y ago
  > Do you think folks in the US should be proud of subsidizing the rest of the world? I don't know what "pride" has anything to do with it. The US does subsidize the rest of the world, implicitly, which is why any effort to reduce drug prices in the US will result in other countries paying more, in the long run. > Maybe the US should allow governments to negotiate drug prices. I don't know what you mean by "allow governments to negotiate drug prices". The US doesn't have any say in whether other countries negotiate prices domestically.
  - ddingus 7y ago
    Many of those other countries have a much cheaper health care system that pools national risk and cost. That, when coupled with bulk pricing pressure negotiations, is very likely to mean marginal increases, if anything.
  - r00fus 7y ago
    > I don't know what you mean by "allow governments to negotiate drug prices". The US doesn't have any say in whether other countries negotiate prices domestically. State and the Federal governments. The USG isn't the only governmental body in the USA. All are essentially blocked from negotiations by Federal law/policy. https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2019/02/01/to-control-drug-prices-states-may-have-to-face-off-against-feds https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...