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This is such a ridiculous statement. Increasing density now does not decrease traffic now (or even in the near future). Grocery stores, outdoor recreation, nigh

This is such a ridiculous statement. Increasing density now does not decrease traffic now (or even in the near future). Grocery stores, outdoor recreation, nightlife, and dining are among the things that need to be within walking distance to get people to give up cars. If the office is the only space that anyone desired I'd set up a hammock by my desk and stop paying a mortgage. Increasing density on its own increases traffic and the parking burden.

ivalm 7y ago
That's the beauty of mixed zoning. They can now build grocery stores, nightlife, dining, etc next to the high density housing. One Paseo is an example development in Carmel Valley that does this. Hillcrest has these developments as well.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  They can, but this moves slow, and there's no guarantee they will do so unless the "mixed-use" code requires it. Grocery stores are also generally not very lucrative -- the margins are small and the lot sizes needed are usually pretty big, and they almost always need parking accomodation. Grocery store owners can't afford high rents. Meanwhile, developers can make a lot more money by stuffing a bunch of tiny condos in a high-rise box compared to accomodating an average market catering to the middle-class family. These kinds of businesses often need special rules in the zoning code to protect their land from being rebuilt as yet another beige/sheet-metal faux-luxury condo complex. I'm speaking from experience. The developers in Denver are chomping at the bits to buy up another grocery store property in Capitol Hill (a centrally-located walkable dense neighborhood) and tear it down for multi-unit housing, and this has already happened in other neighborhoods (we used to have a walking-distance market before it was torn down for high-rises). I have the joy of living near a multi-unit box that is zoned as "mixed use" and has a total of 0 businesses and 0 parking spots, and they tore down a local medical office to build that. In another location, four blocks down, they're tearing down other small offices to build hundreds of apartments -- again, zoned for "mixed use" and yet, again, the ground floor in their blueprints only has more condos and lobby space. Zero local businesses. My point is it just takes a while along with quite a bit of pissed-off political willpower until folks can comfortably ditch cars in car-centric communities, and density isn't a magic pill. What would likely happen is several years of increased traffic and parking utilization before everything falls into place. We're talking about bike lanes, public transportation, and walkability.
  - ivalm 7y ago
    I don't know how it will work out, but my personal experience in SD with mixed use so far is good. Where I live in San Diego (UTC) there was significant improvement due to mixed use (they are building high rises within walking distance of Westfield UTC mall, some of the new residential buildings also have office space inside them (looking at plans for Lux, yes, the name is cringy)). Where I work in San Diego (Carmel Valley) there is a large new development project (One Paseo) that is located next to a mall (Del Mar Highland Center) which is being significantly renovated, and One Paseo itself includes dense residential, office buildings, and restaurants/shops (in fact, the restaurants/shops are already opened while housing will take a few more years to be ready). Both of these developments involve building multistory parking garages to accommodate parking needs.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    You are correct, it will take years. That means we should have started years ago, but failing that we can start now. Even if the "mixed-use" buildings we create today are all residential, that doesn't mean they will stay that way. They can be remodeled if a grocery store wants in. Or the building that goes up next door in a few years can have a bit of commercial. Right now there is more commercial space than we need, while residential space is lacking, so it is no surprise that what you see today it mostly residential. However we now have the legal means to change that over time which is big.

ivalm 7y ago

That's the beauty of mixed zoning. They can now build grocery stores, nightlife, dining, etc next to the high density housing. One Paseo is an example development in Carmel Valley that does this. Hillcrest has these developments as well.

ilikehurdles 7y ago
They can, but this moves slow, and there's no guarantee they will do so unless the "mixed-use" code requires it. Grocery stores are also generally not very lucrative -- the margins are small and the lot sizes needed are usually pretty big, and they almost always need parking accomodation. Grocery store owners can't afford high rents. Meanwhile, developers can make a lot more money by stuffing a bunch of tiny condos in a high-rise box compared to accomodating an average market catering to the middle-class family. These kinds of businesses often need special rules in the zoning code to protect their land from being rebuilt as yet another beige/sheet-metal faux-luxury condo complex. I'm speaking from experience. The developers in Denver are chomping at the bits to buy up another grocery store property in Capitol Hill (a centrally-located walkable dense neighborhood) and tear it down for multi-unit housing, and this has already happened in other neighborhoods (we used to have a walking-distance market before it was torn down for high-rises). I have the joy of living near a multi-unit box that is zoned as "mixed use" and has a total of 0 businesses and 0 parking spots, and they tore down a local medical office to build that. In another location, four blocks down, they're tearing down other small offices to build hundreds of apartments -- again, zoned for "mixed use" and yet, again, the ground floor in their blueprints only has more condos and lobby space. Zero local businesses. My point is it just takes a while along with quite a bit of pissed-off political willpower until folks can comfortably ditch cars in car-centric communities, and density isn't a magic pill. What would likely happen is several years of increased traffic and parking utilization before everything falls into place. We're talking about bike lanes, public transportation, and walkability.
- ivalm 7y ago
  I don't know how it will work out, but my personal experience in SD with mixed use so far is good. Where I live in San Diego (UTC) there was significant improvement due to mixed use (they are building high rises within walking distance of Westfield UTC mall, some of the new residential buildings also have office space inside them (looking at plans for Lux, yes, the name is cringy)). Where I work in San Diego (Carmel Valley) there is a large new development project (One Paseo) that is located next to a mall (Del Mar Highland Center) which is being significantly renovated, and One Paseo itself includes dense residential, office buildings, and restaurants/shops (in fact, the restaurants/shops are already opened while housing will take a few more years to be ready). Both of these developments involve building multistory parking garages to accommodate parking needs.
- bluGill 7y ago
  You are correct, it will take years. That means we should have started years ago, but failing that we can start now. Even if the "mixed-use" buildings we create today are all residential, that doesn't mean they will stay that way. They can be remodeled if a grocery store wants in. Or the building that goes up next door in a few years can have a bit of commercial. Right now there is more commercial space than we need, while residential space is lacking, so it is no surprise that what you see today it mostly residential. However we now have the legal means to change that over time which is big.