5 ms·

Milestones. As a freelancer I have insisted on payment after milestones and it never failed me. That and very strict "no pay, no work" ethics. The point is: Ev

by jlg23 7y ago

Milestones. As a freelancer I have insisted on payment after milestones and it never failed me. That and very strict "no pay, no work" ethics. The point is: Even when "there is no money", getting someone on board takes time and effort. If that someone makes a credible threat to leave, more often than not suddenly there is money. If not: RUN.

SantalBlush 7y ago
The milestone method is very common in the trades, where a lot of builders, etc. are self-employed. Scams are still a threat in that field though. I was on a job where the client devised ways to hold up suppliers so we'd miss our deadlines and he'd get a discount. I did a 22-hour shift and my boss pulled a few all-nighters to get done on time.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  A friend of mine worked on a home remodel job for which the contractor expected delays in payment. The job included a fireplace and chimney because the homeowner loved fireplaces. After a couple of weeks the homeowner called to say he would pay the damn bill but in return they had to fix the terrible draw on the fireplace because the house was filling with smoke no matter how the damper was adjusted. Check in hand, the contractor sent my friend up a ladder to drop a rock down the chimney. After the plate glass they had cemented into the flue while building the chimney was broken, the draw was fine...
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    Very surprised that your friend still has your contractor's license since that's a great way to get it terminated forever. Also a good way to get sued for negligence. And while we're at it, your friend was looking at potential criminal charges, especially if the house had filled with carbon monoxide and killed its inhabitants. But I suppose it makes a good story.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      Haha "contractor's license" what is that? At the state level, some electricians are licensed. Carpenters, generals? No way. The county we're talking about doesn't even inspect private homes. (Which lack of inspection is a good thing. You can always hire an inspector. In the meantime, thrifty folks are building their own homes and only hiring out for the jobs they can't do themselves.) Besides this was probably thirty years ago. My friend is old. His employer (is he who you want to see licensed?) probably isn't even still alive now. CO is dangerous, sure, but lots of fireplaces have had poor draws over the thousands of years that humans have been using fireplaces. It's more common to die from CO when the whole house is burning, but it isn't a sure thing even then. Lots of practices that used to be accepted are going away now that some buildings have CO detectors installed. I had to get the fire department involved to convince a tenant in my office building that their cleaning crew shouldn't use propane-powered floor buffers. The fire department guy was like "I wondered why we had a CO alarm in June..." It's amusing to me that you're so sure my friend was lying about this amusing anecdote from his past. I've seen this guy get in an argument with an employer when he thought he had been overpaid.
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        GC licensing isn't some new regulation. It's been around for a lot longer than 30 years in most states. In Colorado, carpenters and other general contractor's are licensed at the municipal/county level, not the state level. All counties in Colorado require general contractors to be licensed except the most rural counties. It's one thing to build a chimney that accidentally traps fumes. It's another to do so deliberately. This sort of stunt in CA would be (and 30 years ago, still would have been) a criminal act. So yeah, I'm pretty sure your friend is either outright lying or exaggerating the truth to ridiculous extremes. It's more common to die from CO when the whole house is burning, but it isn't a sure thing even then. I have no idea where you got this statistic from, but the primary cause of death from fires is smoke inhalation, not CO inhalation. CO inhalation deaths are greatest in the winters when people run their fireplaces with the chimney flues closed or faulty internal heaters.
        7y ago
  - cosmodisk 7y ago
    Worked in plumbing some years ago. A colleague did a big job on the heating system for this guy,who then started evading him when it came to getting paid. My colleague called him and said: I left a massive piece of metal in the pipework,so the first time you'll turn on the heating,the whole system will go tits up and you won't have heating for weeks. The guy was chasing my colleague for a week trying to give him the money.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      Sounds just as fake as the preceding story. Construction liens are designed expressly for situations like this and are fairly easy to get with proof of nonpayment (generally, a timely submitted invoice registered with your local trade union, inspector's office, or similar).
      - cosmodisk 7y ago
        This was in the UK, where job was taken with only a verbal agreement. Only small majority of people don't pay and some of them then end up in situations like this. Aak any builder, especially where contracts aren't as strongly enforceable,and thry will tell you even more interesting ways of dealing with non paying clients.
        gamblor956 7y ago
        They have construction liens in the UK as well...
        fapjacks 7y ago
        Not even liens, but imagine what would happen to the person (and their business) if they were caught intentionally and maliciously building failure modes into the thing they were hired to build as a means to ensure they got paid.
        cosmodisk 7y ago

by jlg23 7y ago

SantalBlush 7y ago

The milestone method is very common in the trades, where a lot of builders, etc. are self-employed. Scams are still a threat in that field though. I was on a job where the client devised ways to hold up suppliers so we'd miss our deadlines and he'd get a discount. I did a 22-hour shift and my boss pulled a few all-nighters to get done on time.

jessaustin 7y ago
A friend of mine worked on a home remodel job for which the contractor expected delays in payment. The job included a fireplace and chimney because the homeowner loved fireplaces. After a couple of weeks the homeowner called to say he would pay the damn bill but in return they had to fix the terrible draw on the fireplace because the house was filling with smoke no matter how the damper was adjusted. Check in hand, the contractor sent my friend up a ladder to drop a rock down the chimney. After the plate glass they had cemented into the flue while building the chimney was broken, the draw was fine...
- gamblor956 7y ago
  Very surprised that your friend still has your contractor's license since that's a great way to get it terminated forever. Also a good way to get sued for negligence. And while we're at it, your friend was looking at potential criminal charges, especially if the house had filled with carbon monoxide and killed its inhabitants. But I suppose it makes a good story.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Haha "contractor's license" what is that? At the state level, some electricians are licensed. Carpenters, generals? No way. The county we're talking about doesn't even inspect private homes. (Which lack of inspection is a good thing. You can always hire an inspector. In the meantime, thrifty folks are building their own homes and only hiring out for the jobs they can't do themselves.) Besides this was probably thirty years ago. My friend is old. His employer (is he who you want to see licensed?) probably isn't even still alive now. CO is dangerous, sure, but lots of fireplaces have had poor draws over the thousands of years that humans have been using fireplaces. It's more common to die from CO when the whole house is burning, but it isn't a sure thing even then. Lots of practices that used to be accepted are going away now that some buildings have CO detectors installed. I had to get the fire department involved to convince a tenant in my office building that their cleaning crew shouldn't use propane-powered floor buffers. The fire department guy was like "I wondered why we had a CO alarm in June..." It's amusing to me that you're so sure my friend was lying about this amusing anecdote from his past. I've seen this guy get in an argument with an employer when he thought he had been overpaid.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      GC licensing isn't some new regulation. It's been around for a lot longer than 30 years in most states. In Colorado, carpenters and other general contractor's are licensed at the municipal/county level, not the state level. All counties in Colorado require general contractors to be licensed except the most rural counties. It's one thing to build a chimney that accidentally traps fumes. It's another to do so deliberately. This sort of stunt in CA would be (and 30 years ago, still would have been) a criminal act. So yeah, I'm pretty sure your friend is either outright lying or exaggerating the truth to ridiculous extremes. It's more common to die from CO when the whole house is burning, but it isn't a sure thing even then. I have no idea where you got this statistic from, but the primary cause of death from fires is smoke inhalation, not CO inhalation. CO inhalation deaths are greatest in the winters when people run their fireplaces with the chimney flues closed or faulty internal heaters.
      - 7y ago
- cosmodisk 7y ago
  Worked in plumbing some years ago. A colleague did a big job on the heating system for this guy,who then started evading him when it came to getting paid. My colleague called him and said: I left a massive piece of metal in the pipework,so the first time you'll turn on the heating,the whole system will go tits up and you won't have heating for weeks. The guy was chasing my colleague for a week trying to give him the money.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    Sounds just as fake as the preceding story. Construction liens are designed expressly for situations like this and are fairly easy to get with proof of nonpayment (generally, a timely submitted invoice registered with your local trade union, inspector's office, or similar).
    - cosmodisk 7y ago
      This was in the UK, where job was taken with only a verbal agreement. Only small majority of people don't pay and some of them then end up in situations like this. Aak any builder, especially where contracts aren't as strongly enforceable,and thry will tell you even more interesting ways of dealing with non paying clients.
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        They have construction liens in the UK as well...
        fapjacks 7y ago
        Not even liens, but imagine what would happen to the person (and their business) if they were caught intentionally and maliciously building failure modes into the thing they were hired to build as a means to ensure they got paid.
        cosmodisk 7y ago