11 ms·

How over 25 People Got Scammed into Working at a Nonexistent Game Company

90 points by howard941 7y ago

Iv 7y ago
On my first gig as a freelancer, I had the misfortune to have such a non-paying (almost) nonexistent company as a client. Worked almost two months without getting paid. I almost abandoned freelancing after that. Since then, I have a rule, that only failed me once: before working a month for a person, work a week or less, get paid. There are smart scammers who are really devious but those I have met had all kind of pathological problems they were in denial with. I think that most scammers live in a fantasy world. By forcing them to prove they have money, are ready to pay you and know how to make a bank transfer, you are pruning a lot of them. Also, and especially in my case where I have several international clients, the "I dont understand the bank transfer got refused" excuse is very common (and sadly, very believable). Having worked through all the troubles of making a payment from their accounts to yours already sets expectations about normal delays.
- unicornfinder 7y ago
  Something a lot of people will suggest is asking for 50% upfront. In my experience genuine clients won't have a problem with this.
  - d4mi3n 7y ago
    +1 to this. If 50% is untenable due to large project size or unknown scope, what also works really well is agreeing to big milestones for a project and attaching payment plans/due dates to those milestones. e.g. $5k due upon signing of contract, $10k due upon delivery of feature A, $7k upon delivery of feature B, etc.
    - jvagner 7y ago
      Agreed. Always have an initiation fee, applicable to hours to be spent. By the time this ask has been made, the proposal conversation should've established your credibility.
      - howard941 7y ago
        When extended beyond initiation it acts in good ways like attorney fees retainer. Perhaps borrow more elements from that other industry? The engineering retainer times out monthly and gets refreshed before the next month, or when it's exhausted, whichever comes first. Done properly you're not one of your client's creditors: The client should always be in a financial position w/r/t you where you're pre-paid, your compensation secured by the positive retainer balance and if you really get serious, by retaining a perfeted security interest in the work product.
        jvagner 7y ago
        We do this for our maintenance retainers... after our sites go live, we continue to provide technical and marketing services on a monthly basis. Pre-paid retainers secure a lower billing rate. So far, it hasn't been a good idea to start out that way, even from our perspective. The problem with "projects" is that there are usually requirements on both sides, and payment + delivery keep things urgent for both sides. I hate projects that go on forever because the client can't produce things they need to or respond in a definitive manner. Holding the deliverable back is a pretty impactful negative consequence (or: motivation). We are exploring an "agency of record" start-up engagement where the retainer plus phases may be the way to go. But it's less of a project with deliverables than agency-of-record time and effort.
    - swiley 7y ago
      I’ve always felt like it’s a bit strange not to cut large projects up into milestones. The only time I ever worked on a multi month project where I didn’t do that I didn’t end up getting paid.
- sharedfrog 7y ago
  Can you give a few examples of the problems/denials?
  - Iv 7y ago
    "I have a very strong reputation in the market!" (Yeah, a reputation as a guy who writes fake reviews of his company) "Everybody wants me to fail." (No, we are all putting overtime because of your bad decisions, but it turns out they were REALLY bad) "The client was really happy with our demo" (Except for the part where it crashed for half a day and they are threatening legal action) "I made the software work!" (No, you fixed one minor module because the guy you did not pay slammed the door)
    - cosmodisk 7y ago
      "I don't have time to transfer the money,I'm literally driving across the country to the meeting,can we do this tomorrow?" ( It takes 1 minute to pull out your phone, login to your bank app and do it). "Can we just changes this?And this?And then bombards you with 20 back and forth of last minute changes that have never came up in previous 10 meetings you had" (Either can't make up their minds or simply no idea what they want or just delaying payments).
- CPLX 7y ago
  Don't ever work, at all, without getting paid at least something up front, ever. Unless you're working in a physical office, or on a platform that handles escrow or similar, of course. Just don't do it. You will lose literally zero good, profitable opportunities by following this rule.
  - kingofpandora 7y ago
    At the same time employers are saying "Don't ever pay, at all, without getting at least some work first, ever." On the whole this is how the world operates. Work then pay.
  - mdorazio 7y ago
    Wait, what? How is this supposed to work for something like consulting? Asking for a retainer up front is often a one-way ticket to a potential client saying "no thanks" and going with someone else. I definitely would have lost many highly profitable opportunities with that approach.
    - CPLX 7y ago
      Just get at least some money up front. If you can't walk away. It's a pretty simple concept, and it's the way to solve this problem. OK so maybe the only other exception to this rule is when you have a real life serious executed contract and a purchase order with a serious company with hundreds of employees at minimum. Actually just kidding even then don't do it unless you know what you're doing. Those guys decide not to pay or pay months or years later a lot of the time too and will put you right out of business. If someone complains about your policy tell them that you don't have a business manager, billing department, or collections operation, and by not having that you're passing all the savings on those functions on to the client, in exchange for a simple deposit or retainer. Trust me on this. I'm old and have seen a lot of shit. Until you have a ton of experience freelancing or consulting or running an agency and don't need to ask questions like this just start off by getting a deposit or retainer up front every single time you do any work at all.
    - cosmodisk 7y ago
      Freelancing!=consulting,or at least not always. In consulting you'd normally sign engagement contracts, probably even come up with a proposal on what you'll do. Also depends what companies you deal with,in what industry and etc. Freelancing,at least in generally accepted terms,is slightly different,even though there's lots of overlapping areas.
mikestew 7y ago
Your first alarm warning to walk away is the first time payroll is missed. Unless you have some personal attachment to the founders or summat, no amount of "vision" and "passion" is going to make up for the fact that the company is doomed and/or you're being scammed. If you're not on payroll, as another commentor mentions: get money up front. If that's a problem, walk away. Take a page from my patented School of Hard Knocks: if the relationship starts with money problems, you're not suave enough to salvage it. (Source: almost ten years running a consulting company.)
- namanyayg 7y ago
  I think people miss this because of the Sunken Cost Fallacy. I've been freelancing 8 years and I can't imagine taking on a project without 50% upfront. The rare instances I missed that, I've lost money -- fortunately not more than a few thousand total.
iamnotacrook 7y ago
Is that the correct link? It starts out ok but switches to another page after a second or two.
- mighty_bander 7y ago
  I didn't have a problem, fwiw.
- ivberrOg 7y ago
  the au site explodes if you access with js disabled, try https://kotaku.com/how-over-25-people-got-scammed-into-working-at-a-nonexi-1836834497 https://kotaku.com/how-over-25-people-got-scammed-into-worki...
EnFinlay 7y ago
It's crazy to hear someone pull a scam like that and deny it's scam because they were working hard too.
potatofarmer45 7y ago
I hire people via upwork and freelancer to do a lot outsourced non-core tasks for my startup. One of the traits I look for is an immovable demand that 30-50% of a project be paid upfront. It's a s* test that is a far better indicator of experience and competence than any flashy portfolio and ratings.
herodotus 7y ago
It saddens me that there are so many crooks in the world, and that many of them are technically proficient, and that the internet has turned into the perfect platform for crooks, liars, scumbags and cheats. In 1994, a colleague and I, caught up in the excitement and promise of the Internet and HTML / browsers, gave two 1 hour University-wide lectures about the wonderful promise of what was to come. We made predictions that we thought bordered on crazy (like: one day you will see the things called URLs on buses!). But what we did not foresee is the stinking morass that much of the web has become.
- codesushi42 7y ago
  I will get downvoted for sure. And FWIW, I don't work at a blockchain company. But these issues seem like the type of thing smart contracts with escrow accounts were meant to solve. Place the payment into an escrow account that pays out to multiple parties on a regular cadence, after milestone etc. Everyone can see there's a balance in the account, and it's guaranteed to be dispersed according to some conditions being met.
  - _mhr_ 7y ago
    I don't know anything about smart contracts, but how does the smart contract know if a milestone has been met?
    - codesushi42 7y ago
      It doesn't. But it can guarantee regular payments, and transparency regarding the funds available. You could implement a voting mechanism for the milestone payment. Or leave it to the boss.
jlg23 7y ago
Milestones. As a freelancer I have insisted on payment after milestones and it never failed me. That and very strict "no pay, no work" ethics. The point is: Even when "there is no money", getting someone on board takes time and effort. If that someone makes a credible threat to leave, more often than not suddenly there is money. If not: RUN.
- SantalBlush 7y ago
  The milestone method is very common in the trades, where a lot of builders, etc. are self-employed. Scams are still a threat in that field though. I was on a job where the client devised ways to hold up suppliers so we'd miss our deadlines and he'd get a discount. I did a 22-hour shift and my boss pulled a few all-nighters to get done on time.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    A friend of mine worked on a home remodel job for which the contractor expected delays in payment. The job included a fireplace and chimney because the homeowner loved fireplaces. After a couple of weeks the homeowner called to say he would pay the damn bill but in return they had to fix the terrible draw on the fireplace because the house was filling with smoke no matter how the damper was adjusted. Check in hand, the contractor sent my friend up a ladder to drop a rock down the chimney. After the plate glass they had cemented into the flue while building the chimney was broken, the draw was fine...
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      Very surprised that your friend still has your contractor's license since that's a great way to get it terminated forever. Also a good way to get sued for negligence. And while we're at it, your friend was looking at potential criminal charges, especially if the house had filled with carbon monoxide and killed its inhabitants. But I suppose it makes a good story.
      - jessaustin 7y ago
dvh 7y ago
I was shortly working with similar guy, although from the day one it was free/hobby project. He as a leader couldn't keep focus, he was talking about mountains 200 miles north somewhere at 5h mark in game. Then at one point whenever he asked if I can do feature x, feature y, I said: let's work on first 5 minutes of game play. Ok ok. When he came up with another ideas I said let's work on first 30s of gameplay. Then whenever he get any more ideas I asked: "is this in first 5 minutes of gameplay?". It wasn't and the whole project went nowhere. I still have /r/inat I'm my RSS reader but mostly only for daily "I want to make MMORPG" posts.
corodra 7y ago
I'm sorry, but that first paragraph was hilarious. Hates coding and realizes they don't want to be part of the pool that actually has to work 60+ hours a week... I want to be a team manager! I'd rather tell people to work 60 hours instead of being told to work 60 hours!
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  The problem with that strategy in the real world is that as a manager, if your team is working 60hr weeks they're probably creating 60hr of work for you. Sure you can ignore it but then you'll be the bottleneck and 60hr workweeks will become 30hr of work and 30hr of shitposting on HN. It's rarely sustainable to work less than everyone who's work makes you work. If you want to be a slave driver you need to keep up with the slaves.
- digibo 7y ago
  The difference between having a coding team manager that expects everyone should work 60+ hours and a non-coder who is against it, can be huge. I prefer the latter.
  - corodra 7y ago
    I always preferred to have a boss/manager that has some knowledge of what I do. Maybe not the best. But if I explain an issue or problem, they're not lost. Thus, when I say "this is going to take a while" they don't say "you need to do it faster". They let me do the work and on the backend try to find an extra hand, information or anything that might help me. Because they KNOW what I'm going through. I've never met or heard of a manager whose only skill is managing and was actually helpful in the work process. Plus, the useless managers are typically the ones who think the peons should work at 60 hours, because they were never the peon. Hey! I get to say this. I am triggered when I hear people only want to be managers because I know they're incredibly useless meat bags.
- codesushi42 7y ago
  I thought I was the only one who laughed at this inconvenient truth! If you don't care for coding, and you have no artistic talent, maybe the games industry isn't the right place for you.
gwbas1c 7y ago
> Lycanic hopes that in the end, the experience with Drakore will turn out well for Zeal. “At the end of the day, this is not a loss for us. This is a win for us,” said Dinçer. “We know tons of people who want to work with us and not ask for money from us until the time the game starts making money.” > Lycanic was a team of two developers, Mert Dinçer and Tim Popov IMO, Dincer and Popov hold rather significant liability for not doing their due diligence. They were involved in the situation on a day-to-day basis, and will profit the most from the scam.
- cloakandswagger 7y ago
  I did find that quote funny. No kidding it's a win for you, by not exercising due diligence you got 25 people to work on your game for free, and you got to walk away with their work and the rights to the game. Talk about a windfall!
  - fapjacks 7y ago
    Not only that but the PR from this story will bring a ton of sales and buzz. They won the lottery.
cosmodisk 7y ago
There are a lot of people reading this that may,at some point, go into freelancing.I do have a mixed experience of freelancing and seeing these things from the business perspective. 2 simple rules: 1) Always,always ask for % upfront. Ideally,50%. If they start coming up with excuses,drop them.There are extremely persuasive people out there, don't get on their hook. 2) Set milestones. Daily,weekly, or if a project is huge, maybe biweekly. If they start their crap about particular invoicing dates,money release, accountant being away or any other crap,even if it sounds convincing- drop them or put the project on halt,by limiting or restricting access, or some other ways. I'm senior enough in business to know plenty of weasel ways business people pull on freelancers, don't get fooled.

90 points by howard941 7y ago

Iv 7y ago

On my first gig as a freelancer, I had the misfortune to have such a non-paying (almost) nonexistent company as a client. Worked almost two months without getting paid. I almost abandoned freelancing after that. Since then, I have a rule, that only failed me once: before working a month for a person, work a week or less, get paid. There are smart scammers who are really devious but those I have met had all kind of pathological problems they were in denial with. I think that most scammers live in a fantasy world. By forcing them to prove they have money, are ready to pay you and know how to make a bank transfer, you are pruning a lot of them. Also, and especially in my case where I have several international clients, the "I dont understand the bank transfer got refused" excuse is very common (and sadly, very believable). Having worked through all the troubles of making a payment from their accounts to yours already sets expectations about normal delays.

unicornfinder 7y ago
Something a lot of people will suggest is asking for 50% upfront. In my experience genuine clients won't have a problem with this.
- d4mi3n 7y ago
  +1 to this. If 50% is untenable due to large project size or unknown scope, what also works really well is agreeing to big milestones for a project and attaching payment plans/due dates to those milestones. e.g. $5k due upon signing of contract, $10k due upon delivery of feature A, $7k upon delivery of feature B, etc.
  - jvagner 7y ago
    Agreed. Always have an initiation fee, applicable to hours to be spent. By the time this ask has been made, the proposal conversation should've established your credibility.
    - howard941 7y ago
      When extended beyond initiation it acts in good ways like attorney fees retainer. Perhaps borrow more elements from that other industry? The engineering retainer times out monthly and gets refreshed before the next month, or when it's exhausted, whichever comes first. Done properly you're not one of your client's creditors: The client should always be in a financial position w/r/t you where you're pre-paid, your compensation secured by the positive retainer balance and if you really get serious, by retaining a perfeted security interest in the work product.
      - jvagner 7y ago
        We do this for our maintenance retainers... after our sites go live, we continue to provide technical and marketing services on a monthly basis. Pre-paid retainers secure a lower billing rate. So far, it hasn't been a good idea to start out that way, even from our perspective. The problem with "projects" is that there are usually requirements on both sides, and payment + delivery keep things urgent for both sides. I hate projects that go on forever because the client can't produce things they need to or respond in a definitive manner. Holding the deliverable back is a pretty impactful negative consequence (or: motivation). We are exploring an "agency of record" start-up engagement where the retainer plus phases may be the way to go. But it's less of a project with deliverables than agency-of-record time and effort.
  - swiley 7y ago
    I’ve always felt like it’s a bit strange not to cut large projects up into milestones. The only time I ever worked on a multi month project where I didn’t do that I didn’t end up getting paid.
sharedfrog 7y ago
Can you give a few examples of the problems/denials?
- Iv 7y ago
  "I have a very strong reputation in the market!" (Yeah, a reputation as a guy who writes fake reviews of his company) "Everybody wants me to fail." (No, we are all putting overtime because of your bad decisions, but it turns out they were REALLY bad) "The client was really happy with our demo" (Except for the part where it crashed for half a day and they are threatening legal action) "I made the software work!" (No, you fixed one minor module because the guy you did not pay slammed the door)
  - cosmodisk 7y ago
    "I don't have time to transfer the money,I'm literally driving across the country to the meeting,can we do this tomorrow?" ( It takes 1 minute to pull out your phone, login to your bank app and do it). "Can we just changes this?And this?And then bombards you with 20 back and forth of last minute changes that have never came up in previous 10 meetings you had" (Either can't make up their minds or simply no idea what they want or just delaying payments).
CPLX 7y ago
Don't ever work, at all, without getting paid at least something up front, ever. Unless you're working in a physical office, or on a platform that handles escrow or similar, of course. Just don't do it. You will lose literally zero good, profitable opportunities by following this rule.
- kingofpandora 7y ago
  At the same time employers are saying "Don't ever pay, at all, without getting at least some work first, ever." On the whole this is how the world operates. Work then pay.
- mdorazio 7y ago
  Wait, what? How is this supposed to work for something like consulting? Asking for a retainer up front is often a one-way ticket to a potential client saying "no thanks" and going with someone else. I definitely would have lost many highly profitable opportunities with that approach.
  - CPLX 7y ago
    Just get at least some money up front. If you can't walk away. It's a pretty simple concept, and it's the way to solve this problem. OK so maybe the only other exception to this rule is when you have a real life serious executed contract and a purchase order with a serious company with hundreds of employees at minimum. Actually just kidding even then don't do it unless you know what you're doing. Those guys decide not to pay or pay months or years later a lot of the time too and will put you right out of business. If someone complains about your policy tell them that you don't have a business manager, billing department, or collections operation, and by not having that you're passing all the savings on those functions on to the client, in exchange for a simple deposit or retainer. Trust me on this. I'm old and have seen a lot of shit. Until you have a ton of experience freelancing or consulting or running an agency and don't need to ask questions like this just start off by getting a deposit or retainer up front every single time you do any work at all.
  - cosmodisk 7y ago
    Freelancing!=consulting,or at least not always. In consulting you'd normally sign engagement contracts, probably even come up with a proposal on what you'll do. Also depends what companies you deal with,in what industry and etc. Freelancing,at least in generally accepted terms,is slightly different,even though there's lots of overlapping areas.

mikestew 7y ago

Your first alarm warning to walk away is the first time payroll is missed. Unless you have some personal attachment to the founders or summat, no amount of "vision" and "passion" is going to make up for the fact that the company is doomed and/or you're being scammed. If you're not on payroll, as another commentor mentions: get money up front. If that's a problem, walk away. Take a page from my patented School of Hard Knocks: if the relationship starts with money problems, you're not suave enough to salvage it. (Source: almost ten years running a consulting company.)

namanyayg 7y ago
I think people miss this because of the Sunken Cost Fallacy. I've been freelancing 8 years and I can't imagine taking on a project without 50% upfront. The rare instances I missed that, I've lost money -- fortunately not more than a few thousand total.

iamnotacrook 7y ago

Is that the correct link? It starts out ok but switches to another page after a second or two.

mighty_bander 7y ago
I didn't have a problem, fwiw.
ivberrOg 7y ago
the au site explodes if you access with js disabled, try https://kotaku.com/how-over-25-people-got-scammed-into-working-at-a-nonexi-1836834497 https://kotaku.com/how-over-25-people-got-scammed-into-worki...

EnFinlay 7y ago

It's crazy to hear someone pull a scam like that and deny it's scam because they were working hard too.

potatofarmer45 7y ago

I hire people via upwork and freelancer to do a lot outsourced non-core tasks for my startup. One of the traits I look for is an immovable demand that 30-50% of a project be paid upfront. It's a s* test that is a far better indicator of experience and competence than any flashy portfolio and ratings.

herodotus 7y ago

It saddens me that there are so many crooks in the world, and that many of them are technically proficient, and that the internet has turned into the perfect platform for crooks, liars, scumbags and cheats. In 1994, a colleague and I, caught up in the excitement and promise of the Internet and HTML / browsers, gave two 1 hour University-wide lectures about the wonderful promise of what was to come. We made predictions that we thought bordered on crazy (like: one day you will see the things called URLs on buses!). But what we did not foresee is the stinking morass that much of the web has become.

codesushi42 7y ago
I will get downvoted for sure. And FWIW, I don't work at a blockchain company. But these issues seem like the type of thing smart contracts with escrow accounts were meant to solve. Place the payment into an escrow account that pays out to multiple parties on a regular cadence, after milestone etc. Everyone can see there's a balance in the account, and it's guaranteed to be dispersed according to some conditions being met.
- _mhr_ 7y ago
  I don't know anything about smart contracts, but how does the smart contract know if a milestone has been met?
  - codesushi42 7y ago
    It doesn't. But it can guarantee regular payments, and transparency regarding the funds available. You could implement a voting mechanism for the milestone payment. Or leave it to the boss.

jlg23 7y ago

Milestones. As a freelancer I have insisted on payment after milestones and it never failed me. That and very strict "no pay, no work" ethics. The point is: Even when "there is no money", getting someone on board takes time and effort. If that someone makes a credible threat to leave, more often than not suddenly there is money. If not: RUN.

SantalBlush 7y ago
The milestone method is very common in the trades, where a lot of builders, etc. are self-employed. Scams are still a threat in that field though. I was on a job where the client devised ways to hold up suppliers so we'd miss our deadlines and he'd get a discount. I did a 22-hour shift and my boss pulled a few all-nighters to get done on time.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  A friend of mine worked on a home remodel job for which the contractor expected delays in payment. The job included a fireplace and chimney because the homeowner loved fireplaces. After a couple of weeks the homeowner called to say he would pay the damn bill but in return they had to fix the terrible draw on the fireplace because the house was filling with smoke no matter how the damper was adjusted. Check in hand, the contractor sent my friend up a ladder to drop a rock down the chimney. After the plate glass they had cemented into the flue while building the chimney was broken, the draw was fine...
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    Very surprised that your friend still has your contractor's license since that's a great way to get it terminated forever. Also a good way to get sued for negligence. And while we're at it, your friend was looking at potential criminal charges, especially if the house had filled with carbon monoxide and killed its inhabitants. But I suppose it makes a good story.
    - jessaustin 7y ago

dvh 7y ago

I was shortly working with similar guy, although from the day one it was free/hobby project. He as a leader couldn't keep focus, he was talking about mountains 200 miles north somewhere at 5h mark in game. Then at one point whenever he asked if I can do feature x, feature y, I said: let's work on first 5 minutes of game play. Ok ok. When he came up with another ideas I said let's work on first 30s of gameplay. Then whenever he get any more ideas I asked: "is this in first 5 minutes of gameplay?". It wasn't and the whole project went nowhere. I still have /r/inat I'm my RSS reader but mostly only for daily "I want to make MMORPG" posts.

corodra 7y ago

I'm sorry, but that first paragraph was hilarious. Hates coding and realizes they don't want to be part of the pool that actually has to work 60+ hours a week... I want to be a team manager! I'd rather tell people to work 60 hours instead of being told to work 60 hours!

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
The problem with that strategy in the real world is that as a manager, if your team is working 60hr weeks they're probably creating 60hr of work for you. Sure you can ignore it but then you'll be the bottleneck and 60hr workweeks will become 30hr of work and 30hr of shitposting on HN. It's rarely sustainable to work less than everyone who's work makes you work. If you want to be a slave driver you need to keep up with the slaves.
digibo 7y ago
The difference between having a coding team manager that expects everyone should work 60+ hours and a non-coder who is against it, can be huge. I prefer the latter.
- corodra 7y ago
  I always preferred to have a boss/manager that has some knowledge of what I do. Maybe not the best. But if I explain an issue or problem, they're not lost. Thus, when I say "this is going to take a while" they don't say "you need to do it faster". They let me do the work and on the backend try to find an extra hand, information or anything that might help me. Because they KNOW what I'm going through. I've never met or heard of a manager whose only skill is managing and was actually helpful in the work process. Plus, the useless managers are typically the ones who think the peons should work at 60 hours, because they were never the peon. Hey! I get to say this. I am triggered when I hear people only want to be managers because I know they're incredibly useless meat bags.
codesushi42 7y ago
I thought I was the only one who laughed at this inconvenient truth! If you don't care for coding, and you have no artistic talent, maybe the games industry isn't the right place for you.

gwbas1c 7y ago

> Lycanic hopes that in the end, the experience with Drakore will turn out well for Zeal. “At the end of the day, this is not a loss for us. This is a win for us,” said Dinçer. “We know tons of people who want to work with us and not ask for money from us until the time the game starts making money.” > Lycanic was a team of two developers, Mert Dinçer and Tim Popov IMO, Dincer and Popov hold rather significant liability for not doing their due diligence. They were involved in the situation on a day-to-day basis, and will profit the most from the scam.

cloakandswagger 7y ago
I did find that quote funny. No kidding it's a win for you, by not exercising due diligence you got 25 people to work on your game for free, and you got to walk away with their work and the rights to the game. Talk about a windfall!
- fapjacks 7y ago
  Not only that but the PR from this story will bring a ton of sales and buzz. They won the lottery.

cosmodisk 7y ago

There are a lot of people reading this that may,at some point, go into freelancing.I do have a mixed experience of freelancing and seeing these things from the business perspective. 2 simple rules: 1) Always,always ask for % upfront. Ideally,50%. If they start coming up with excuses,drop them.There are extremely persuasive people out there, don't get on their hook. 2) Set milestones. Daily,weekly, or if a project is huge, maybe biweekly. If they start their crap about particular invoicing dates,money release, accountant being away or any other crap,even if it sounds convincing- drop them or put the project on halt,by limiting or restricting access, or some other ways. I'm senior enough in business to know plenty of weasel ways business people pull on freelancers, don't get fooled.