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> The reason that even minor crimes [..] are taken seriously is that letting small things slide is the beginning of an erosion of the rule of law. I really lov

> The reason that even minor crimes [..] are taken seriously is that letting small things slide is the beginning of an erosion of the rule of law. I really love how you condensed it well. This is how I always observed in the wild.

Cthulhu_ 7y ago
I guess it's a valid approach - see broken window syndrome - but at the same time it's only something you can do if the police force has the luxury to respond to minor (possible) crimes. Second, it doesn't work in e.g. the US where many people are arrested, tried and jailed for small crimes, e.g. possession of marihuana. Is that a deterrent? Does it work to reduce the production, trade and consumption of drugs? Does it over time cause the prison population to reduce and prisons to close?
- jtx22 7y ago
  That's different. Drug use is a victimless crime. Breaking someone's windows is not.
bananaeater 7y ago
This is called Broken Windows theory. "The broken windows theory is a criminological theory that states that visible signs of crime, anti-social behavior, and civil disorder create an urban environment that encourages further crime and disorder, including serious crimes. The theory suggests that policing methods that target minor crimes such as vandalism, public drinking, and fare evasion help to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness, thereby preventing more serious crimes." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
ckris 7y ago
Correlation is not causation. Somewhere where there isn't for example a lot of police presence might have a lot of petty crime, but the inverse isn't true. Many authoritarian countries with completely corrupt legal systems enforce petty crimes harshly. If anything this tends to suggest an erosion of the rule of law, since the purpose of the rule of law is to weight different interests against each other with things like proportionality.
- nihonde 7y ago
  In Japan, it’s common to see politicians, business people, or celebrities lose their entire livelihood and reputation over crimes such as mistakes in accounting for business lunches amounting to a few hundred dollars, or possession of a few grams of pot. Likewise, even a hint of political favors or major financial shenanigans carry huge impact. There will be deep bowing, sincere tears, and deep, deep, lasting shaming and exile from professional circles. It’s what a culture that keeps shame alive looks like, and IMO it’s a lot healthier than places that let the rich walk free after being caught red-handed, while the poor get locked up for life or murdered by the state over trivial, non-violent crimes.
snuze 7y ago
The broken windows theory introduced by Wilson and Kelling.

Cthulhu_ 7y ago

I guess it's a valid approach - see broken window syndrome - but at the same time it's only something you can do if the police force has the luxury to respond to minor (possible) crimes. Second, it doesn't work in e.g. the US where many people are arrested, tried and jailed for small crimes, e.g. possession of marihuana. Is that a deterrent? Does it work to reduce the production, trade and consumption of drugs? Does it over time cause the prison population to reduce and prisons to close?

jtx22 7y ago
That's different. Drug use is a victimless crime. Breaking someone's windows is not.

bananaeater 7y ago

This is called Broken Windows theory. "The broken windows theory is a criminological theory that states that visible signs of crime, anti-social behavior, and civil disorder create an urban environment that encourages further crime and disorder, including serious crimes. The theory suggests that policing methods that target minor crimes such as vandalism, public drinking, and fare evasion help to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness, thereby preventing more serious crimes." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

ckris 7y ago

Correlation is not causation. Somewhere where there isn't for example a lot of police presence might have a lot of petty crime, but the inverse isn't true. Many authoritarian countries with completely corrupt legal systems enforce petty crimes harshly. If anything this tends to suggest an erosion of the rule of law, since the purpose of the rule of law is to weight different interests against each other with things like proportionality.

nihonde 7y ago
In Japan, it’s common to see politicians, business people, or celebrities lose their entire livelihood and reputation over crimes such as mistakes in accounting for business lunches amounting to a few hundred dollars, or possession of a few grams of pot. Likewise, even a hint of political favors or major financial shenanigans carry huge impact. There will be deep bowing, sincere tears, and deep, deep, lasting shaming and exile from professional circles. It’s what a culture that keeps shame alive looks like, and IMO it’s a lot healthier than places that let the rich walk free after being caught red-handed, while the poor get locked up for life or murdered by the state over trivial, non-violent crimes.

snuze 7y ago

The broken windows theory introduced by Wilson and Kelling.