6 ms·

> I don't know how much US insurance costs your employer, but I assume it's several times more, rather than several times less, than mine pays! You also likely

> I don't know how much US insurance costs your employer, but I assume it's several times more, rather than several times less, than mine pays! You also likely make half what I make and that's before taxes (my wife is from the UK, I looked at jobs over there and rural US IT salaries can beat London IT salaries). I prefer my deal to yours.

foldr 7y ago
That’s true, but how much of that extra money you get to keep in the long run is determined by the health lottery. If you end up having cancer for 5 years, you can kiss it all goodbye. But yes, one thing that's tough for Europeans who haven't lived in the US to comprehend is that Americans really do prefer being able to buy a bigger TV to having proper security when it comes to health care.
- fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
  If I lived in the London with the salaries they wanted to pay I'd be poor either way. It was enough to live in a tenement block. take public transport and eat cheap food. In the US I own a home, two cars, and support my entire family from just my salary. If I got cancer in the US I'd have be forced to live in a tenement block. take public transport and eat cheap food just like if I was "lucky" in the UK.
  - foldr 7y ago
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by a "tenement block", but a typical tech salary in New York or San Fransisco isn't going to be enough to live in a town house. If you're in a city, you're going to be in an apartment, and that apartment is probably going to be in a block of apartments. >If I got cancer in the US I'd have be forced to live in a tenement block. take public transport and eat cheap food just like if I was "lucky" in the UK. That's an interesting perspective on public transport. Public transport is a far more pleasant way to get around London than driving :) But, no, you could end up in a far worse situation than that in the US. Medical costs are very unpredictable and bear no relation to your wealth. You could easily end up bankrupt and unable to pay for vital medical treatment. I realize that most Americans like to live in complete denial of this fact, but it's inarguably true. Also, even taking what you say at face value, it's quite incredible that you're satisfied with this. Why should you have to take a massive hit in living standards just because you get sick?
    - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
      >but a typical tech salary in New York or San Fransisco isn't going to be enough to live in a town house. That's true, but then I'd be talking about salaries that aren't double of what is offered in London but 5 or 6 fold higher. I own my home and support my wife and daughter by myself in a low crime suburban area in the US, that isn't possible anywhere I could find in the UK. Did I also mention I didn't go to college? >But, no, you could end up in a far worse situation than that in the US. Medical costs are very unpredictable and bear no relation to your wealth. You could easily end up bankrupt and unable to pay for vital medical treatment. When you get that sick you end up on socialized medicine, SSDI and medicaid cover those costs at that point. Also while you will receive medical bills you don't actually have to pay them while hospitals are not allowed to refuse you life saving treatment.
      - foldr 7y ago
        Tech salaries in NYC and SF aren't 5 or 6 times higher than tech salaries in London. >I own my home and support my wife and daughter by myself in a low crime suburban area in the US, that isn't possible anywhere I could find in the UK. I'm not sure what you're saying at this point. I grew up in a low crime suburban area in the UK. My Dad worked, my mom stayed at home. They owned the house. My Dad works as a programmer. >When you get that sick you end up on socialized medicine, SSDI and medicaid cover those costs at that point. Erm, no. You will not likely meet the eligibility requirements for medicaid. That's just wishful thinking. If that's how the system worked, medical bankruptcies wouldn't happen. >Also while you will receive medical bills you don't actually have to pay them while hospitals are not allowed to refuse you life saving treatment. They're not allowed to refuse you life-saving emergency treatment. They sure can refuse to give you chemo, refuse to give you reconstructive surgery if you've been badly burned, etc. etc. It's astonishing how unaware you are of how the health system works your own country. America has a lot of work to do on this issue. You really could suddenly end up with a $500,000 medical bill. It's tough to face up to that fact, but it is a fact. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/first-kidney-failure-then-540-842-bill-dialysis-n1034496 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/first-kidney-fail...
        7y ago
- copenja 7y ago
  Most employer sponsored healthcare plans in the US have a maximum out of pocket the patient can be charged per year. The average cost for someone with cancer and an employer sponsored plan in the US is around $6000 per year. That's $500 a month. https://www.cheatsheet.com/health-fitness/how-much-you-can-really-expect-to-pay-for-treatment-if-you-get-cancer.html/ https://www.cheatsheet.com/health-fitness/how-much-you-can-r... Both my parents had cancer and survived in US, so I do know from first hand experience. They did not get ruined financially. That said, I do support healthcare for all in the US.
  - foldr 7y ago
    >Most employer sponsored healthcare plans in the US have a maximum out of pocket the patient can be charged per year. Yeah, but that's irrelevant if you have to use an out of network provider in an emergency situation, or if you need a treatment that your insurance provider refuses to cover.
    - AstralStorm 7y ago
      The lack of global insurance policy for actual emergencies is a crime of this insurance system you have in the US. This is where the government is supposed to step in. Nobody is in any position to predict where they will be taken for emergency care, and copays for random amounts is essentially ransom.
disordinary 7y ago
How much paid vacation do you get? Sick days? How much maternity leave does your wife get? What sort of employment protection do you have? The difference isn't as clear cut as it seems on the surface.
- fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
  Four weeks. No sick days part of the four weeks. None but I can afford to support her while she is home with our daughter for as long as they need. None besides about 5 job offers in my inbox per day.
  - disordinary 7y ago
    You're privileged enough to be in the right industry in the right location, with the right skill sets and experience, at the right time. If things were different you'd get no holidays, no job security, etc. I know people in tech on the east coast of the US who struggle to get two weeks leave and struggle to change jobs. Four weeks is something the rest of the world just takes for granted. I also know people that have been bankrupted because of health costs, this was my uncle who was a millionaire and had the best insurance money could buy. His wife got cancer, they fought the insurance company, sold the business and the car collection and houses, she died, he went bankrupt. It was very sad. I used to work in the bay area but ultimately decided to come home. Here in NZ in the tech industry I earn a couple of hundred thousand which is admittedly less than I'd learn in the US but while things like employment protection aren't important to me right now I also take comfort by the fact that if I get hit by a car ACC will cover my loss of income and rehabilitation, I simply don't have to worry about getting sick or injured. I also take comfort by the fact that everyone, be it a barista or a barrister, has the same perks (like four weeks paid leave, sick leave) and protection that I do. Another example: a company I worked for in NZ was a US multinational, they did a big restructure where they laid off thousands. Because of employment law most of the lay offs were people in the US, South America, and Asia. Europe and New Zealand were almost completely unscathed, it was just easier.
  - close04 7y ago
    On one hand you ask for exact names of people who have gone through unfortunate health or medical bills related moments but on the other hand you compare esoteric "identical jobs" with no consistency or transparency. One in London which barely pays for an apartment in a tenement building, public transport, and nothing else. The other is in "rural US", pays double, you can afford a house, 2 cars, and to support your whole family by yourself, and a whole list of other benefits (some unusual for the US). Are they really the same job? Are the 2 salaries/conditions representative of the job or you just got lucky? Are they actually identical (what happens if you're sick for 6 months?)? Are the salaries that you could find published on the internet representative for London? What's "rural" US? Are you working from home for a big company or do you have to be on site? If you have to work in your town/suburb what other career opportunities are available for you and your family there compared to London? You may be happy with your salary now but if there's no room to grow, or you have no choice if you lose you job/company goes bust, then it's not quite ideal. I understand you may not want to provide details about your personal life but as it stands you have anecdotal evidence that may or may not be based on flawed data (cherry picked examples or low quality information), while everyone else supported their claims with actual links. Just in case: I'm not British, nor do I live there.

foldr 7y ago

That’s true, but how much of that extra money you get to keep in the long run is determined by the health lottery. If you end up having cancer for 5 years, you can kiss it all goodbye. But yes, one thing that's tough for Europeans who haven't lived in the US to comprehend is that Americans really do prefer being able to buy a bigger TV to having proper security when it comes to health care.

fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
If I lived in the London with the salaries they wanted to pay I'd be poor either way. It was enough to live in a tenement block. take public transport and eat cheap food. In the US I own a home, two cars, and support my entire family from just my salary. If I got cancer in the US I'd have be forced to live in a tenement block. take public transport and eat cheap food just like if I was "lucky" in the UK.
- foldr 7y ago
  I'm not sure exactly what you mean by a "tenement block", but a typical tech salary in New York or San Fransisco isn't going to be enough to live in a town house. If you're in a city, you're going to be in an apartment, and that apartment is probably going to be in a block of apartments. >If I got cancer in the US I'd have be forced to live in a tenement block. take public transport and eat cheap food just like if I was "lucky" in the UK. That's an interesting perspective on public transport. Public transport is a far more pleasant way to get around London than driving :) But, no, you could end up in a far worse situation than that in the US. Medical costs are very unpredictable and bear no relation to your wealth. You could easily end up bankrupt and unable to pay for vital medical treatment. I realize that most Americans like to live in complete denial of this fact, but it's inarguably true. Also, even taking what you say at face value, it's quite incredible that you're satisfied with this. Why should you have to take a massive hit in living standards just because you get sick?
  - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
    >but a typical tech salary in New York or San Fransisco isn't going to be enough to live in a town house. That's true, but then I'd be talking about salaries that aren't double of what is offered in London but 5 or 6 fold higher. I own my home and support my wife and daughter by myself in a low crime suburban area in the US, that isn't possible anywhere I could find in the UK. Did I also mention I didn't go to college? >But, no, you could end up in a far worse situation than that in the US. Medical costs are very unpredictable and bear no relation to your wealth. You could easily end up bankrupt and unable to pay for vital medical treatment. When you get that sick you end up on socialized medicine, SSDI and medicaid cover those costs at that point. Also while you will receive medical bills you don't actually have to pay them while hospitals are not allowed to refuse you life saving treatment.
    - foldr 7y ago
      Tech salaries in NYC and SF aren't 5 or 6 times higher than tech salaries in London. >I own my home and support my wife and daughter by myself in a low crime suburban area in the US, that isn't possible anywhere I could find in the UK. I'm not sure what you're saying at this point. I grew up in a low crime suburban area in the UK. My Dad worked, my mom stayed at home. They owned the house. My Dad works as a programmer. >When you get that sick you end up on socialized medicine, SSDI and medicaid cover those costs at that point. Erm, no. You will not likely meet the eligibility requirements for medicaid. That's just wishful thinking. If that's how the system worked, medical bankruptcies wouldn't happen. >Also while you will receive medical bills you don't actually have to pay them while hospitals are not allowed to refuse you life saving treatment. They're not allowed to refuse you life-saving emergency treatment. They sure can refuse to give you chemo, refuse to give you reconstructive surgery if you've been badly burned, etc. etc. It's astonishing how unaware you are of how the health system works your own country. America has a lot of work to do on this issue. You really could suddenly end up with a $500,000 medical bill. It's tough to face up to that fact, but it is a fact. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/first-kidney-failure-then-540-842-bill-dialysis-n1034496 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/first-kidney-fail...
      - 7y ago
copenja 7y ago
Most employer sponsored healthcare plans in the US have a maximum out of pocket the patient can be charged per year. The average cost for someone with cancer and an employer sponsored plan in the US is around $6000 per year. That's $500 a month. https://www.cheatsheet.com/health-fitness/how-much-you-can-really-expect-to-pay-for-treatment-if-you-get-cancer.html/ https://www.cheatsheet.com/health-fitness/how-much-you-can-r... Both my parents had cancer and survived in US, so I do know from first hand experience. They did not get ruined financially. That said, I do support healthcare for all in the US.
- foldr 7y ago
  >Most employer sponsored healthcare plans in the US have a maximum out of pocket the patient can be charged per year. Yeah, but that's irrelevant if you have to use an out of network provider in an emergency situation, or if you need a treatment that your insurance provider refuses to cover.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    The lack of global insurance policy for actual emergencies is a crime of this insurance system you have in the US. This is where the government is supposed to step in. Nobody is in any position to predict where they will be taken for emergency care, and copays for random amounts is essentially ransom.

disordinary 7y ago

How much paid vacation do you get? Sick days? How much maternity leave does your wife get? What sort of employment protection do you have? The difference isn't as clear cut as it seems on the surface.

fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
Four weeks. No sick days part of the four weeks. None but I can afford to support her while she is home with our daughter for as long as they need. None besides about 5 job offers in my inbox per day.
- disordinary 7y ago
  You're privileged enough to be in the right industry in the right location, with the right skill sets and experience, at the right time. If things were different you'd get no holidays, no job security, etc. I know people in tech on the east coast of the US who struggle to get two weeks leave and struggle to change jobs. Four weeks is something the rest of the world just takes for granted. I also know people that have been bankrupted because of health costs, this was my uncle who was a millionaire and had the best insurance money could buy. His wife got cancer, they fought the insurance company, sold the business and the car collection and houses, she died, he went bankrupt. It was very sad. I used to work in the bay area but ultimately decided to come home. Here in NZ in the tech industry I earn a couple of hundred thousand which is admittedly less than I'd learn in the US but while things like employment protection aren't important to me right now I also take comfort by the fact that if I get hit by a car ACC will cover my loss of income and rehabilitation, I simply don't have to worry about getting sick or injured. I also take comfort by the fact that everyone, be it a barista or a barrister, has the same perks (like four weeks paid leave, sick leave) and protection that I do. Another example: a company I worked for in NZ was a US multinational, they did a big restructure where they laid off thousands. Because of employment law most of the lay offs were people in the US, South America, and Asia. Europe and New Zealand were almost completely unscathed, it was just easier.
- close04 7y ago
  On one hand you ask for exact names of people who have gone through unfortunate health or medical bills related moments but on the other hand you compare esoteric "identical jobs" with no consistency or transparency. One in London which barely pays for an apartment in a tenement building, public transport, and nothing else. The other is in "rural US", pays double, you can afford a house, 2 cars, and to support your whole family by yourself, and a whole list of other benefits (some unusual for the US). Are they really the same job? Are the 2 salaries/conditions representative of the job or you just got lucky? Are they actually identical (what happens if you're sick for 6 months?)? Are the salaries that you could find published on the internet representative for London? What's "rural" US? Are you working from home for a big company or do you have to be on site? If you have to work in your town/suburb what other career opportunities are available for you and your family there compared to London? You may be happy with your salary now but if there's no room to grow, or you have no choice if you lose you job/company goes bust, then it's not quite ideal. I understand you may not want to provide details about your personal life but as it stands you have anecdotal evidence that may or may not be based on flawed data (cherry picked examples or low quality information), while everyone else supported their claims with actual links. Just in case: I'm not British, nor do I live there.