7 ms·

"get out of you don't like it" Nobody saying this has actually researched it. Too many people in the states are under the impression you can just up and move t

"get out of you don't like it" Nobody saying this has actually researched it. Too many people in the states are under the impression you can just up and move to a European country, no problem. One friendly-but-clueless acquaintance got flown back from Heathrow for asking the immigration officer about where to find jobs when she landed. If you don't/can't: * work in tech or medicine * go to university in Europe in a high-demand field * woo a European to marry you (a favoured option among women I knew in college, I notice - wonder why the gender disparity?) your options are pretty limited. There's the Dutch American Friendship Treaty and digging through the family bible for the birth cert of some Irish or Italian grandparent and that's about it.

SomeOldThrow 7y ago
> Nobody saying this has actually researched it Acknowledging this would be acknowledging how attractive alternatives are in comparison.
Cthulhu_ 7y ago
My girlfriend recently moved in with me so we've done a lot of research. It's relatively easy to move here from within Europe, as in, if you move from an EU country you have a right to work and live here, and you get the same rights and responsibilities as soon as you register yourself as living here. If you want to move here from outside of the EU it's a whole other matter though. It boils down to two things though: Can you look after yourself (for example have a job ready; just as long as you won't come here expecting a handout from the government), and can you integrate (you have to do a language and culture certification in your country of origin).
- briandear 7y ago
  How ironic that the “progressive” European welfare states have highly restricted immigration and America naturalizes more new citizens each year than the rest of the world combined. The US also allows illegal aliens de facto residence assuming they haven’t committed a significant crime. We even provide free education. If those illegal aliens have a child in the US, we give that child citizenship and subsequently make the child’s family eligible for welfare benefits in the interests of helping the American citizen child. I was a legal resident of France and two of my children were born there and they didn’t get French citizenship, nor even automatic permanent residence. It is impossible to have open borders, provide amnesty for 20+ million illegal aliens, birthright citizenship while simultaneously having European style welfare. There is a very good reason EU immigration is so hard, the system would collapse if US style immigration liberalization existed. You can’t have nearly open borders and free everything. As far as a previous poster said about Americans and our empathy problem —- it is interesting that Republicans give to charity at a vastly higher rates than Democrats [1] and American charitable giving is vastly higher than the rest of the world. More of the donations for the Notre Dame restoration are coming from Americans than even the French. The US funds UN humanitarian orgs at profoundly higher levels than any other country. The US funded the Marshall Plan to help rebuild Europe from a war we didn’t even start. Where’s the European version of the Marshall Plan for former colonies of Africa? It seems like European countries are rather selfish when it comes to helping others while American is quite generous with foreign aid. Perhaps Europeans have an empathy problem? Or maybe a fiscal one? Suggesting that Americans don’t have empathy isn’t entirely accurate. Many of us just don’t want the government doing what private charity should do. I don’t want Congress deciding what causes are “worthy” — using human misery as a means for buying votes. I’m sorry for people who have bad luck, but where is their family? Their church? Their local community? How is someone outside of my community or family circle my problem? And, the US does have welfare programs. Medicaid exists and serves the poor. I know, I once was on Medicaid for a year. Food stamps also exist: I know, I used that program in New Jersey for about 6 months. I am not sure what else we should be providing as a government. Government isn’t a charity and nor should it be. Certainly it should provide a minimal safety net to ensure people aren’t starving in the streets, but charity is really about the local community, local organizations, and local priorities. And giving to charity should be voluntary, not compelled at the point of a gun like taxes are. I highly resent someone that has been unemployed for literally years while I took whatever shitty jobs I could find to stay off the street. I also resent people that never cared about buying health insurance (for example the young and healthy that tend to avoid buying insurance,) then they get a critical illness and go bankrupt and blame “the system” when they chose not to buy cheap disability or health insurance while they had the chance, instead buying plenty of the proverbial avocado toast or #yolo-ing through social media while the rest of us were, as they say, “adulting.” The other problem I have is when people claim that medical bills “bankrupted” them. Do we know what that means? That means they didn’t have to pay any of that money back. The debts were discharged by bankruptcy. It doesn’t mean they go to debtors prison, nor does it mean they even lose their primary residence. It just means their credit is ruined for a few years. That just means they can’t borrow money for a few years; they aren’t thrown into some Dickens novel and forced to beg on the street for more porridge. It means all of their debts are discharged and they get to start over and rebuild. I am pretty sure that most people don’t know what bankruptcy actually means, they just throw the word around like it’s some kind of bomb, hoping that enough people are scared and horrified by it that they agree to raise taxes in such a way to prevent people from ever failing — but then also never succeeding. America is a place we’re you can start over, you can rebuild, and bankruptcy isn’t some life sentence dooming you to poverty. In fact, it’s possible to have multiple bankruptcies and still become president of the United States.
  - disordinary 7y ago
    I don't think you'll find that progressive people outside of the US advocate open borders. Having a points based system which actually means you bring in people who'll have a job waiting for them is better for everyone involved. You also have humanitarian based immigration as well of course. The US is big enough that it can absorb people from all industries and backgrounds, but in smaller countries that's not the case. And it's wrong to bring in people if they end up being Uber drivers because there's not the jobs available for them and their expertise. You also can't rely on charity and the community. Just look at people who crowd fund for operations, etc. that biases to people who are attractive, young, outgoing, etc. I don't want anything to do with a church based charity personally and I'd feel embarrassed begging for money, I would not want to rely on such a corrupt institution with their ulterior motives. It's much more practical to centralise the costs of looking after the poor, if you look at the US they pay more per person than pretty much any country on healthcare yet it's ineffective and expensive because of everyone clipping the ticket. People also don't use misery to buy votes. Here in NZ even the most right wing party wouldn't dream of going to private healthcare. Different parties do have different priorities and because it's a proportionate system with multiple parties in government it's a better reflection on the will of the people. I think one of the biggest problems that you have is that you've got a pretty broken democracy where the majority don't get a say and even if they did you're restricted to two parties and their policies, there's no compromise or grey area it's an all or nothing approach.
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    "America naturalizes more new citizens each year than the rest of the world combined." Source? "it is interesting that Republicans give to charity at a vastly higher rates than Democrats [1]" Where is the [1] source? " I’m sorry for people who have bad luck, but where is their family? Their church? Their local community? How is someone outside of my community or family circle my problem?" Isn't this the argument here that there is an empathy problem, as your post is displaying a lack of empathy?
    - hcurtiss 7y ago
      I don't have that guy's exact statistic, but here's a page that supports the immigration argument. The US lets a lot of people in from all over the world. Also note those numbers for Germany include people from other EU countries. https://immigrationlawyerslosangeles.com/immigration-law/immigration-united-states-vs-countries/ https://immigrationlawyerslosangeles.com/immigration-law/imm...
icebraining 7y ago
As usual, if you're well-off you have extra options. Get $500k to buy some property (which you can then rent) in Portugal or Spain and you get residency (and later can apply for citizenship). Then again, if you have access to $500k, the safety net is probably less interesting.
- Lucadg 7y ago
  Greece has a similar program if I'm not mistaken.
  - homakov 7y ago
    $250k. But why go this way? You're limited to live in those southern european countries. You can't live e.g. in Netherlands with golden visa of Portugal or Greece.
    - Lucadg 7y ago
      interesting, I didn't know that
    - icebraining 7y ago
      It just takes five years to get citizenship in Portugal, then you can.
      - homakov 7y ago
        Five is the minimum. Plus many strings attached. Few people want to wait 5 years to solve a residence problem.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  $400k CAD to get an investor visa in Canada. There is also an entrepreneur visa, though you have to have funding via some of the approved venture firms. QC will add its own rules -- they have their own Immigration Dept. -- but if you have a lot of money to spend you're probably not going to Quebec anyways, since their taxes are high, even by CAN standards.
praptak 7y ago
Dunno about UK. Settling in Poland is not that hard, although no piece of cake either. I believe you can get a job with the associated temporary residence permit, extend this as many times as necessary to meet the uninterrupted legal stay requirements, then apply for the permanent residence. Getting citizenship is probably a bit harder but not impossible - about a thousand people get it in Poland each year by the decision of the president.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  "Get a job with the associated temporary residence permit" I'm not familiar with Poland specifically but this is generally the insurmountable barrier for most folks. Remember not everyone is a dev! "Sick person who works at Best Buy and drives for Lyft on the side" is going to have a really hard time with that step. Generally speaking, employers need to make a reasonable enough case that they couldn't get an EU person to do the job, and there are often income minimums, specified in-need fields, etc. . So it's definitely not impossible (I did it), but for the sort of person getting told "if you don't like it you can 'git out" it's an issue.
  - idighkwjt 7y ago
    So the issue is that no other country in the world will take them? Even if we assume that’s true, that’s reason enough to be grateful. People are literally dying to break into the country for the opportunity that these folks are complaining is inadequate.
    - maxheadroom 7y ago
      >So the issue is that no other country in the world will take them? Even if we assume that’s true, that’s reason enough to be grateful. ...but you're ignoring the principle that people are flippantly telling them, "If you don't like, just leave!", which is what brought about this discussion in the first place. It isn't a realistic option when such barriers exist. >People are literally dying to break into the country for the opportunity that these folks are complaining is inadequate. This logic doesn't work. People are literally dying to get into the EU and people from the EU emigrate, yeah? If everyone believed in the exceptionalism of their own home country, then no one would leave! Also, they're probably not complaining about the opportunity as much as other factors, like society (en masse [e.g.: American society, Russian society, Chinese society, etc.]).
godzillabrennus 7y ago
I have heard it is pretty easy to become an Israeli citizen if you are jewish. They have socialized healthcare.
- jgtrosh 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return > The law since 1970 applies to the following groups: > Those born Jews according to the orthodox interpretation; having a Jewish mother or maternal grandmother. > Those with Jewish ancestry - having a Jewish father or grandfather. > Converts to Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, or Conservative denominations—not secular—though Reform and Conservative conversions must take place outside the state, similar to civil marriages). > But Jews who have converted to another religion are not eligible to immigrate under the Law of Return, even though are still Jews according to halakha. > Section 2(b) of the Law of Return empowers the Minister of Interior to deny Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return on a number of grounds. For example, an applicant may be denied citizenship if he or she is considered a threat to the security of the State of Israel (e.g. treason against the Jewish State), or who has a past criminal record involving a serious crime, such as murder, and poses a danger to the well-being of the State of Israel; or, for example, may be a fugitive in another country for any felony (unless they are persecution victims); or such persons who, by virtue of their illness, may pose a serious public health risk to the people of Israel; as also any person who may be actively engaged in any campaign that vociferously speaks out against the Jewish people and undermines their cause (such as demagoguery). > In 2014, Interior Minister Gidon Sa'ar officially decided that, according to the Law of Return, Jews in same-sex relationships married abroad wishing to immigrate to Israel can do so - even if their partners are not Jewish - and both they and their partners will receive Israeli citizenship.
- avip 7y ago
  Here's how it looks from the inside: https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/israels-universal-healthcare-system-faces-collapse/ https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/israels-universal-healthc... Israel has good public healthcare, but it has been severely under-funded for years.
disordinary 7y ago
Also, if you have long term medical problems which are going to burden the tax payer they're not going to let you in.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  Very true. I have to hold private medical insurance as part of my permission to be here (and to get here in the first place).
spiderkeeper 7y ago
The people saying this aren’t saying it in good faith. They are saying it because they are racist.
- idighkwjt 7y ago
  Do you mind if I ask your race? I would like to tell you that you too can leave, but obviously - as a racist - I don’t know if that’s something I want until I can get a picture of how you physically look. /s.
avip 7y ago
What makes you think someone who can "work in tech or medicine" is somehow EU immigration eligible?
- maxheadroom 7y ago
  >What makes you think someone who can "work in tech or medicine" is somehow EU immigration eligible? Most of the more restrictive EU countries (e.g.: UK, Ireland, etc.) have barriers to getting immigration stamps, which the most oft way of immigration is through employment and the most labour available to foreigners is either tech or medicine. For example, in Sweden, a position must be listed as a highly qualified skill, the role must be listed for 20 days (I think it is) - so that EU citizens can be afforded an opportunity before the role is given to an immigrant, and then the employment contract must be agreed upon by the labour union before it can be approved. You're not getting an employment contract, for example, to work in Burger King in Stockholm because it wouldn't pass the labour market needs test. So, this is presumably why the OC thinks that medicine and tech make you immigration eligible. Worthy of note is that tech or medicine are the best ways to get the EU Blue card (the equivalent of the US Greencard); so, the assumption isn't without its merits.
  - ckris 7y ago
    > You're not getting an employment contract, for example, to work in Burger King in Stockholm because it wouldn't pass the labour market needs test. As far as I know there isn't any labour market test in Sweden anymore. The unions only gets to comment on whether the contract is similar to that of the collective agreement for the sector. http://www.nordiclabourjournal.org/i-fokus/in-focus-2013/social-dumping/article.2013-04-15.1028469787 http://www.nordiclabourjournal.org/i-fokus/in-focus-2013/soc...
    - CalRobert 7y ago
      Are you saying a poor American can go work at Burger King in Sweden? That's revelatory.
      - 7y ago
idighkwjt 7y ago
There’s a lot of countries in the world. Why limit yourself? Go further east, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, India. There’s a lot in South America too. Venezuela has been in the news recently. Or you could try somewhere that’s stayed out of the news, like Uruguay, or Peru. China?
greencore 7y ago
In many ex-Eastern block countries (for example in Lithuania) there are repatriation laws that allows you to get back citizenship if you or your (grand)parents that had citizenship before 1940 ran away from country during or after WW2. Of course this needs to have papers that would prove that.
jan_g 7y ago
But that's not an EU-only thing. In essence, immigration process boils down to this question: - can you support yourself (i.e. have job contract or enough savings)? Prove that you can and the rest is somewhat easy, providing you follow procedures, official documentation requirements, etc. It's still by no means an easy task. Moving to another country is hard, one of the hardest things a person can do in their life.
hestipod 7y ago
I've found most things people say to defend/ignore/deny this issue and their views on it to be entirely unbased in factual knowledge. As you said it's hard to immigrate when healthy and having good options. Once you are down its harder and more costly to do everything, and it doesn't stop getting worse. I was half immigrated to another country when the path was derailed by coming up against these things. I have no claims to citizenship based on family or any other option either, or I'd have been gone decades ago. Once you fall from grace in the USA you are stuck. Can't afford to be poor and broken here.

SomeOldThrow 7y ago

> Nobody saying this has actually researched it Acknowledging this would be acknowledging how attractive alternatives are in comparison.

Cthulhu_ 7y ago

My girlfriend recently moved in with me so we've done a lot of research. It's relatively easy to move here from within Europe, as in, if you move from an EU country you have a right to work and live here, and you get the same rights and responsibilities as soon as you register yourself as living here. If you want to move here from outside of the EU it's a whole other matter though. It boils down to two things though: Can you look after yourself (for example have a job ready; just as long as you won't come here expecting a handout from the government), and can you integrate (you have to do a language and culture certification in your country of origin).

briandear 7y ago
How ironic that the “progressive” European welfare states have highly restricted immigration and America naturalizes more new citizens each year than the rest of the world combined. The US also allows illegal aliens de facto residence assuming they haven’t committed a significant crime. We even provide free education. If those illegal aliens have a child in the US, we give that child citizenship and subsequently make the child’s family eligible for welfare benefits in the interests of helping the American citizen child. I was a legal resident of France and two of my children were born there and they didn’t get French citizenship, nor even automatic permanent residence. It is impossible to have open borders, provide amnesty for 20+ million illegal aliens, birthright citizenship while simultaneously having European style welfare. There is a very good reason EU immigration is so hard, the system would collapse if US style immigration liberalization existed. You can’t have nearly open borders and free everything. As far as a previous poster said about Americans and our empathy problem —- it is interesting that Republicans give to charity at a vastly higher rates than Democrats [1] and American charitable giving is vastly higher than the rest of the world. More of the donations for the Notre Dame restoration are coming from Americans than even the French. The US funds UN humanitarian orgs at profoundly higher levels than any other country. The US funded the Marshall Plan to help rebuild Europe from a war we didn’t even start. Where’s the European version of the Marshall Plan for former colonies of Africa? It seems like European countries are rather selfish when it comes to helping others while American is quite generous with foreign aid. Perhaps Europeans have an empathy problem? Or maybe a fiscal one? Suggesting that Americans don’t have empathy isn’t entirely accurate. Many of us just don’t want the government doing what private charity should do. I don’t want Congress deciding what causes are “worthy” — using human misery as a means for buying votes. I’m sorry for people who have bad luck, but where is their family? Their church? Their local community? How is someone outside of my community or family circle my problem? And, the US does have welfare programs. Medicaid exists and serves the poor. I know, I once was on Medicaid for a year. Food stamps also exist: I know, I used that program in New Jersey for about 6 months. I am not sure what else we should be providing as a government. Government isn’t a charity and nor should it be. Certainly it should provide a minimal safety net to ensure people aren’t starving in the streets, but charity is really about the local community, local organizations, and local priorities. And giving to charity should be voluntary, not compelled at the point of a gun like taxes are. I highly resent someone that has been unemployed for literally years while I took whatever shitty jobs I could find to stay off the street. I also resent people that never cared about buying health insurance (for example the young and healthy that tend to avoid buying insurance,) then they get a critical illness and go bankrupt and blame “the system” when they chose not to buy cheap disability or health insurance while they had the chance, instead buying plenty of the proverbial avocado toast or #yolo-ing through social media while the rest of us were, as they say, “adulting.” The other problem I have is when people claim that medical bills “bankrupted” them. Do we know what that means? That means they didn’t have to pay any of that money back. The debts were discharged by bankruptcy. It doesn’t mean they go to debtors prison, nor does it mean they even lose their primary residence. It just means their credit is ruined for a few years. That just means they can’t borrow money for a few years; they aren’t thrown into some Dickens novel and forced to beg on the street for more porridge. It means all of their debts are discharged and they get to start over and rebuild. I am pretty sure that most people don’t know what bankruptcy actually means, they just throw the word around like it’s some kind of bomb, hoping that enough people are scared and horrified by it that they agree to raise taxes in such a way to prevent people from ever failing — but then also never succeeding. America is a place we’re you can start over, you can rebuild, and bankruptcy isn’t some life sentence dooming you to poverty. In fact, it’s possible to have multiple bankruptcies and still become president of the United States.
- disordinary 7y ago
  I don't think you'll find that progressive people outside of the US advocate open borders. Having a points based system which actually means you bring in people who'll have a job waiting for them is better for everyone involved. You also have humanitarian based immigration as well of course. The US is big enough that it can absorb people from all industries and backgrounds, but in smaller countries that's not the case. And it's wrong to bring in people if they end up being Uber drivers because there's not the jobs available for them and their expertise. You also can't rely on charity and the community. Just look at people who crowd fund for operations, etc. that biases to people who are attractive, young, outgoing, etc. I don't want anything to do with a church based charity personally and I'd feel embarrassed begging for money, I would not want to rely on such a corrupt institution with their ulterior motives. It's much more practical to centralise the costs of looking after the poor, if you look at the US they pay more per person than pretty much any country on healthcare yet it's ineffective and expensive because of everyone clipping the ticket. People also don't use misery to buy votes. Here in NZ even the most right wing party wouldn't dream of going to private healthcare. Different parties do have different priorities and because it's a proportionate system with multiple parties in government it's a better reflection on the will of the people. I think one of the biggest problems that you have is that you've got a pretty broken democracy where the majority don't get a say and even if they did you're restricted to two parties and their policies, there's no compromise or grey area it's an all or nothing approach.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  "America naturalizes more new citizens each year than the rest of the world combined." Source? "it is interesting that Republicans give to charity at a vastly higher rates than Democrats [1]" Where is the [1] source? " I’m sorry for people who have bad luck, but where is their family? Their church? Their local community? How is someone outside of my community or family circle my problem?" Isn't this the argument here that there is an empathy problem, as your post is displaying a lack of empathy?
  - hcurtiss 7y ago
    I don't have that guy's exact statistic, but here's a page that supports the immigration argument. The US lets a lot of people in from all over the world. Also note those numbers for Germany include people from other EU countries. https://immigrationlawyerslosangeles.com/immigration-law/immigration-united-states-vs-countries/ https://immigrationlawyerslosangeles.com/immigration-law/imm...

icebraining 7y ago

As usual, if you're well-off you have extra options. Get $500k to buy some property (which you can then rent) in Portugal or Spain and you get residency (and later can apply for citizenship). Then again, if you have access to $500k, the safety net is probably less interesting.

Lucadg 7y ago
Greece has a similar program if I'm not mistaken.
- homakov 7y ago
  $250k. But why go this way? You're limited to live in those southern european countries. You can't live e.g. in Netherlands with golden visa of Portugal or Greece.
  - Lucadg 7y ago
    interesting, I didn't know that
  - icebraining 7y ago
    It just takes five years to get citizenship in Portugal, then you can.
    - homakov 7y ago
      Five is the minimum. Plus many strings attached. Few people want to wait 5 years to solve a residence problem.
blaser-waffle 7y ago
$400k CAD to get an investor visa in Canada. There is also an entrepreneur visa, though you have to have funding via some of the approved venture firms. QC will add its own rules -- they have their own Immigration Dept. -- but if you have a lot of money to spend you're probably not going to Quebec anyways, since their taxes are high, even by CAN standards.

praptak 7y ago

Dunno about UK. Settling in Poland is not that hard, although no piece of cake either. I believe you can get a job with the associated temporary residence permit, extend this as many times as necessary to meet the uninterrupted legal stay requirements, then apply for the permanent residence. Getting citizenship is probably a bit harder but not impossible - about a thousand people get it in Poland each year by the decision of the president.

CalRobert 7y ago
"Get a job with the associated temporary residence permit" I'm not familiar with Poland specifically but this is generally the insurmountable barrier for most folks. Remember not everyone is a dev! "Sick person who works at Best Buy and drives for Lyft on the side" is going to have a really hard time with that step. Generally speaking, employers need to make a reasonable enough case that they couldn't get an EU person to do the job, and there are often income minimums, specified in-need fields, etc. . So it's definitely not impossible (I did it), but for the sort of person getting told "if you don't like it you can 'git out" it's an issue.
- idighkwjt 7y ago
  So the issue is that no other country in the world will take them? Even if we assume that’s true, that’s reason enough to be grateful. People are literally dying to break into the country for the opportunity that these folks are complaining is inadequate.
  - maxheadroom 7y ago
    >So the issue is that no other country in the world will take them? Even if we assume that’s true, that’s reason enough to be grateful. ...but you're ignoring the principle that people are flippantly telling them, "If you don't like, just leave!", which is what brought about this discussion in the first place. It isn't a realistic option when such barriers exist. >People are literally dying to break into the country for the opportunity that these folks are complaining is inadequate. This logic doesn't work. People are literally dying to get into the EU and people from the EU emigrate, yeah? If everyone believed in the exceptionalism of their own home country, then no one would leave! Also, they're probably not complaining about the opportunity as much as other factors, like society (en masse [e.g.: American society, Russian society, Chinese society, etc.]).

godzillabrennus 7y ago

I have heard it is pretty easy to become an Israeli citizen if you are jewish. They have socialized healthcare.

jgtrosh 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return > The law since 1970 applies to the following groups: > Those born Jews according to the orthodox interpretation; having a Jewish mother or maternal grandmother. > Those with Jewish ancestry - having a Jewish father or grandfather. > Converts to Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, or Conservative denominations—not secular—though Reform and Conservative conversions must take place outside the state, similar to civil marriages). > But Jews who have converted to another religion are not eligible to immigrate under the Law of Return, even though are still Jews according to halakha. > Section 2(b) of the Law of Return empowers the Minister of Interior to deny Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return on a number of grounds. For example, an applicant may be denied citizenship if he or she is considered a threat to the security of the State of Israel (e.g. treason against the Jewish State), or who has a past criminal record involving a serious crime, such as murder, and poses a danger to the well-being of the State of Israel; or, for example, may be a fugitive in another country for any felony (unless they are persecution victims); or such persons who, by virtue of their illness, may pose a serious public health risk to the people of Israel; as also any person who may be actively engaged in any campaign that vociferously speaks out against the Jewish people and undermines their cause (such as demagoguery). > In 2014, Interior Minister Gidon Sa'ar officially decided that, according to the Law of Return, Jews in same-sex relationships married abroad wishing to immigrate to Israel can do so - even if their partners are not Jewish - and both they and their partners will receive Israeli citizenship.
avip 7y ago
Here's how it looks from the inside: https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/israels-universal-healthcare-system-faces-collapse/ https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/israels-universal-healthc... Israel has good public healthcare, but it has been severely under-funded for years.

disordinary 7y ago

Also, if you have long term medical problems which are going to burden the tax payer they're not going to let you in.

CalRobert 7y ago
Very true. I have to hold private medical insurance as part of my permission to be here (and to get here in the first place).

spiderkeeper 7y ago

The people saying this aren’t saying it in good faith. They are saying it because they are racist.

idighkwjt 7y ago
Do you mind if I ask your race? I would like to tell you that you too can leave, but obviously - as a racist - I don’t know if that’s something I want until I can get a picture of how you physically look. /s.

avip 7y ago

What makes you think someone who can "work in tech or medicine" is somehow EU immigration eligible?

maxheadroom 7y ago
>What makes you think someone who can "work in tech or medicine" is somehow EU immigration eligible? Most of the more restrictive EU countries (e.g.: UK, Ireland, etc.) have barriers to getting immigration stamps, which the most oft way of immigration is through employment and the most labour available to foreigners is either tech or medicine. For example, in Sweden, a position must be listed as a highly qualified skill, the role must be listed for 20 days (I think it is) - so that EU citizens can be afforded an opportunity before the role is given to an immigrant, and then the employment contract must be agreed upon by the labour union before it can be approved. You're not getting an employment contract, for example, to work in Burger King in Stockholm because it wouldn't pass the labour market needs test. So, this is presumably why the OC thinks that medicine and tech make you immigration eligible. Worthy of note is that tech or medicine are the best ways to get the EU Blue card (the equivalent of the US Greencard); so, the assumption isn't without its merits.
- ckris 7y ago
  > You're not getting an employment contract, for example, to work in Burger King in Stockholm because it wouldn't pass the labour market needs test. As far as I know there isn't any labour market test in Sweden anymore. The unions only gets to comment on whether the contract is similar to that of the collective agreement for the sector. http://www.nordiclabourjournal.org/i-fokus/in-focus-2013/social-dumping/article.2013-04-15.1028469787 http://www.nordiclabourjournal.org/i-fokus/in-focus-2013/soc...
  - CalRobert 7y ago
    Are you saying a poor American can go work at Burger King in Sweden? That's revelatory.
    - 7y ago

idighkwjt 7y ago

There’s a lot of countries in the world. Why limit yourself? Go further east, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, India. There’s a lot in South America too. Venezuela has been in the news recently. Or you could try somewhere that’s stayed out of the news, like Uruguay, or Peru. China?

greencore 7y ago

In many ex-Eastern block countries (for example in Lithuania) there are repatriation laws that allows you to get back citizenship if you or your (grand)parents that had citizenship before 1940 ran away from country during or after WW2. Of course this needs to have papers that would prove that.

jan_g 7y ago

But that's not an EU-only thing. In essence, immigration process boils down to this question: - can you support yourself (i.e. have job contract or enough savings)? Prove that you can and the rest is somewhat easy, providing you follow procedures, official documentation requirements, etc. It's still by no means an easy task. Moving to another country is hard, one of the hardest things a person can do in their life.

hestipod 7y ago

I've found most things people say to defend/ignore/deny this issue and their views on it to be entirely unbased in factual knowledge. As you said it's hard to immigrate when healthy and having good options. Once you are down its harder and more costly to do everything, and it doesn't stop getting worse. I was half immigrated to another country when the path was derailed by coming up against these things. I have no claims to citizenship based on family or any other option either, or I'd have been gone decades ago. Once you fall from grace in the USA you are stuck. Can't afford to be poor and broken here.