4 ms·

> It may be also easier to parse than an overloaded omnnibox/location/search/navigation/security/menu bar. I think the point is that Google doesn't want users

> It may be also easier to parse than an overloaded omnnibox/location/search/navigation/security/menu bar. I think the point is that Google doesn't want users to be able to parse this much information. Keep the people dumb, if you want to call it that way. Or uninformed, uneducated, whatever. "Enter whatever you want to know or see in this field and we will do some magic so you get what you want". That's where they want to go, no doubt about it as Google probably profits the most from technically-uneducated users of its services.

cm2187 7y ago
Particularly given that you have a whole generation now that grew up with these technologies, the proportion of technically litterate users will go up over time not down.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  That's absolutely not true. See e.g. how literate are people about cars, vs. how they were 40 years ago. See also the classical 2013 rant on the topic: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-co....
- dsego 7y ago
  Growing up with technologies is not enough to be technically literate. I would say it's the opposite, you grew up with it so you don't really think about how it works.
  - type0 7y ago
    It's the fallacy of digital natives: http://ecdl.org/policy-publications/digital-native-fallacy http://ecdl.org/policy-publications/digital-native-fallacy
- martin_a 7y ago
  If that would be true, we would see much more skepticism against home assistant technologies, social networks, "funny apps" and alike. I think people fail to grasp the full impact of technology on their lives, although (or because) they are surrounded by it.
- jolmg 7y ago
  I don't know... I've known the internet since before the web was the internet. I know there's irc, ftp, etc. To those that grew up with the web, there is nothing beyond the web. The web is the internet. At the rate we're going, in time the new generations will rarely see a URL and won't know what they are exactly or what they're for. Google will be a necessary gateway to access anything on the internet.
  - cm2187 7y ago
    But what you are describing is a tiny insignificant minority of very technical users from the 90s, amongst a population who didn't understand it at all (cf all the 1990s movies where the actor turns off the monitor instead of the computer!). What I am trying to point at is the vast number of users born after 1990 that have a decent basic understanding of these technologies. And within that generation, the portion that has a similar deep understanding to 1990s users is a population which by absolute size is several orders of magnitude larger what it was in the 1990s. And it is going to keep increasing.
    - jolmg 7y ago
      You said: > the proportion of technically litterate users will go up over time not down. I take the proportion to mean "out of all internet/computer users". That has gone down. And that's the proportion that I think matters as it's what dictates the direction internet/computer technologies go. The proportion is going down, precisely because more people are using these technologies and the majority are not willing to learn as much.
  - basch 7y ago
    >To those that grew up with the web, there is nothing beyond the web arguably the web is the legacy thing for places that dont have apps, and native apps are mostly what they are familiar with.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- masswerk 7y ago
  I'm not that optimistic. Technical literacy tends to peak with literate/interested users who saw the rise of a technical medium. (E.g., I guess, my grandfather knew more about the intrinsics of a radio, even if I try to educate myself watching tube radio repair videos. High frequency stuff was generally sorted out, before I was born. I'm a high frequency native, but not necessarily an expert.) As things start to become more complex and tend to be more tightly integrated at the same time, the underlying technology somewhat vanishes. If you are faced with this as a fait accompli, it isn't natural anymore to investigate what is ultimately an opaque module. However, this opaque module is our universal means of production, communication and creativity. We may have to counteract what may be a tendency towards simplification and taking things for granted.
amfsn 7y ago
>Keep the people dumb, if you want to call it that way. Or uninformed, uneducated, whatever. Nice conspiracy. Are you writing a book?
- martin_a 7y ago
  Don't you think that the worlds-largest provider of search services, ad services, mail services, video services, smartphone operating system vendor and more would profit, one way or another, if people are technically uneducated and don't understand the things that are happening "behind the scenes" of their browser?
  - amfsn 7y ago
    Unless you're implying educated people don't use search, ad, mail, video, etc?
    - martin_a 7y ago
      No, but technically educated people are able to find alternatives, question why things are happening the way they are and improve their experience, by something as simple as using an adblocker. Big tech companies, I think this is not limited to Google, are not interested in that. People shall use their gated communities and that's enough of the internet.
  - jon-wood 7y ago
    What's gained by people understanding what's happening behind the scenes? We don't expect people to understand the details of how their car engine works, or how digital radio signals are encoded and decoded, why should we make it necessary that they do so for the internet? So long as sites that aren't using SSL are highlighted, and its not possible to spoof the browser into displaying a domain you're not looking at, I honestly don't see what benefit the typical user gets from seeing https://www.google.com https://www.google.com vs google.com.
    - masswerk 7y ago

cm2187 7y ago

Particularly given that you have a whole generation now that grew up with these technologies, the proportion of technically litterate users will go up over time not down.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
That's absolutely not true. See e.g. how literate are people about cars, vs. how they were 40 years ago. See also the classical 2013 rant on the topic: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-co....
dsego 7y ago
Growing up with technologies is not enough to be technically literate. I would say it's the opposite, you grew up with it so you don't really think about how it works.
- type0 7y ago
  It's the fallacy of digital natives: http://ecdl.org/policy-publications/digital-native-fallacy http://ecdl.org/policy-publications/digital-native-fallacy
martin_a 7y ago
If that would be true, we would see much more skepticism against home assistant technologies, social networks, "funny apps" and alike. I think people fail to grasp the full impact of technology on their lives, although (or because) they are surrounded by it.
jolmg 7y ago
I don't know... I've known the internet since before the web was the internet. I know there's irc, ftp, etc. To those that grew up with the web, there is nothing beyond the web. The web is the internet. At the rate we're going, in time the new generations will rarely see a URL and won't know what they are exactly or what they're for. Google will be a necessary gateway to access anything on the internet.
- cm2187 7y ago
  But what you are describing is a tiny insignificant minority of very technical users from the 90s, amongst a population who didn't understand it at all (cf all the 1990s movies where the actor turns off the monitor instead of the computer!). What I am trying to point at is the vast number of users born after 1990 that have a decent basic understanding of these technologies. And within that generation, the portion that has a similar deep understanding to 1990s users is a population which by absolute size is several orders of magnitude larger what it was in the 1990s. And it is going to keep increasing.
  - jolmg 7y ago
    You said: > the proportion of technically litterate users will go up over time not down. I take the proportion to mean "out of all internet/computer users". That has gone down. And that's the proportion that I think matters as it's what dictates the direction internet/computer technologies go. The proportion is going down, precisely because more people are using these technologies and the majority are not willing to learn as much.
- basch 7y ago
  >To those that grew up with the web, there is nothing beyond the web arguably the web is the legacy thing for places that dont have apps, and native apps are mostly what they are familiar with.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
masswerk 7y ago
I'm not that optimistic. Technical literacy tends to peak with literate/interested users who saw the rise of a technical medium. (E.g., I guess, my grandfather knew more about the intrinsics of a radio, even if I try to educate myself watching tube radio repair videos. High frequency stuff was generally sorted out, before I was born. I'm a high frequency native, but not necessarily an expert.) As things start to become more complex and tend to be more tightly integrated at the same time, the underlying technology somewhat vanishes. If you are faced with this as a fait accompli, it isn't natural anymore to investigate what is ultimately an opaque module. However, this opaque module is our universal means of production, communication and creativity. We may have to counteract what may be a tendency towards simplification and taking things for granted.

amfsn 7y ago

>Keep the people dumb, if you want to call it that way. Or uninformed, uneducated, whatever. Nice conspiracy. Are you writing a book?

martin_a 7y ago
Don't you think that the worlds-largest provider of search services, ad services, mail services, video services, smartphone operating system vendor and more would profit, one way or another, if people are technically uneducated and don't understand the things that are happening "behind the scenes" of their browser?
- amfsn 7y ago
  Unless you're implying educated people don't use search, ad, mail, video, etc?
  - martin_a 7y ago
    No, but technically educated people are able to find alternatives, question why things are happening the way they are and improve their experience, by something as simple as using an adblocker. Big tech companies, I think this is not limited to Google, are not interested in that. People shall use their gated communities and that's enough of the internet.
- jon-wood 7y ago
  What's gained by people understanding what's happening behind the scenes? We don't expect people to understand the details of how their car engine works, or how digital radio signals are encoded and decoded, why should we make it necessary that they do so for the internet? So long as sites that aren't using SSL are highlighted, and its not possible to spoof the browser into displaying a domain you're not looking at, I honestly don't see what benefit the typical user gets from seeing https://www.google.com https://www.google.com vs google.com.
  - masswerk 7y ago