3 ms·

I don't understand how you think this way about ownership. If it's not yours and you don't enter into a transaction (the transaction can be implied in the case

I don't understand how you think this way about ownership. If it's not yours and you don't enter into a transaction (the transaction can be implied in the case of give-aways) wherein the previous owner grants you ownership, then it stays not yours. Things in a car are pretty unambiguously not up-for-grabs to anyone who doesn't own the car.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
Things aren't always that cut and dried. For example: What if the car is also abandoned? I was raised to be extremely upstanding and responsible etc. But you can take that too far, which is why we have and need laws that cover when certain things end: statutes of limitations, laws declaring when property is deemed abandoned, etc. Every state in the US has laws in place that spell out under what conditions the government or another party can claim your real estate. The local government typically claims it if you haven't paid your taxes in X amount of time and resells it. If it is mortgaged, the bank can claim it if you fail to pay for X amount of time. States also spell out when a total stranger can file legal claim on your real estate. This usually involves them openly living there, getting their mail there and paying the utilities and the like for a number of years. Most states require a period of between ten and twenty years. The most liberal states only require five years. The most conservative -- Texas -- requires 30 years. Countries that don't have solid processes in place for returning seemingly abandoned real estate to use by allowing some other party to establish legal claim to it wind up having extremely thorny problems, including intractable poverty for large swaths of the population. Problems with trying to establish clear legal ownership in countries with overly conservative laws or traditions in that regard is one of the biggest challenges faced by Habitat for Humanity. Lack of ability to readily and easily say "We don't think they are coming back for it, and if they do, too bad so sad, time's up" actively undermines a functional society far worse than the occasional petty crime (such as some swiped beer). I'm personally excessively conservative about such things. But I'm old enough to recognize that different people draw those lines in different places and that people less conservative than me don't necessarily deserve to be viewed as bad actors. They certainly don't deserve to be tricked into committing a crime so that bored police officers have something to do.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > For example: What if the car is also abandoned? It is still not yours, and it is not your decision to make.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- magduf 7y ago
  >For example: What if the car is also abandoned? Simple: you inform the police that you think that car has been abandoned, and you let them deal with it. You can't just jump-start it and drive away because you think it's abandoned.
zimbatm 7y ago
Ownership is just a notion. It's a custom our society has invented, probably pushed by people who had things, and then tried to convince everyone that this was the norm. In more tribal societies it's not uncommon that people have no notion of ownership, or that it's less transactional. People who steal who I have met generally believe that it's the fault of the victim to have left that item up for grab. Just to say that the notion is quite fluid between people.
- DangitBobby 7y ago
  I think most people in the places that I frequent have very similar training on customs pertaining to personal property and ownership as I do, and that differences in how they act on that training is less to do with different customs and more to do with allowing yourself to shape your moral framework to match your desires rather than the other way around.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

Things aren't always that cut and dried. For example: What if the car is also abandoned? I was raised to be extremely upstanding and responsible etc. But you can take that too far, which is why we have and need laws that cover when certain things end: statutes of limitations, laws declaring when property is deemed abandoned, etc. Every state in the US has laws in place that spell out under what conditions the government or another party can claim your real estate. The local government typically claims it if you haven't paid your taxes in X amount of time and resells it. If it is mortgaged, the bank can claim it if you fail to pay for X amount of time. States also spell out when a total stranger can file legal claim on your real estate. This usually involves them openly living there, getting their mail there and paying the utilities and the like for a number of years. Most states require a period of between ten and twenty years. The most liberal states only require five years. The most conservative -- Texas -- requires 30 years. Countries that don't have solid processes in place for returning seemingly abandoned real estate to use by allowing some other party to establish legal claim to it wind up having extremely thorny problems, including intractable poverty for large swaths of the population. Problems with trying to establish clear legal ownership in countries with overly conservative laws or traditions in that regard is one of the biggest challenges faced by Habitat for Humanity. Lack of ability to readily and easily say "We don't think they are coming back for it, and if they do, too bad so sad, time's up" actively undermines a functional society far worse than the occasional petty crime (such as some swiped beer). I'm personally excessively conservative about such things. But I'm old enough to recognize that different people draw those lines in different places and that people less conservative than me don't necessarily deserve to be viewed as bad actors. They certainly don't deserve to be tricked into committing a crime so that bored police officers have something to do.

mieseratte 7y ago
> For example: What if the car is also abandoned? It is still not yours, and it is not your decision to make.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
magduf 7y ago
>For example: What if the car is also abandoned? Simple: you inform the police that you think that car has been abandoned, and you let them deal with it. You can't just jump-start it and drive away because you think it's abandoned.

zimbatm 7y ago

Ownership is just a notion. It's a custom our society has invented, probably pushed by people who had things, and then tried to convince everyone that this was the norm. In more tribal societies it's not uncommon that people have no notion of ownership, or that it's less transactional. People who steal who I have met generally believe that it's the fault of the victim to have left that item up for grab. Just to say that the notion is quite fluid between people.

DangitBobby 7y ago
I think most people in the places that I frequent have very similar training on customs pertaining to personal property and ownership as I do, and that differences in how they act on that training is less to do with different customs and more to do with allowing yourself to shape your moral framework to match your desires rather than the other way around.