5 ms·

I'm not saying Apple isn't successful. In fact, that's my point: they're clearly releasing solid products. But they aren't the category-killers that the company

I'm not saying Apple isn't successful. In fact, that's my point: they're clearly releasing solid products. But they aren't the category-killers that the company's reputation for innovation is built on. There have been rumors of new innovations (reinventing TV, an Apple Car, augmented reality) but none have materialized. Regardless of whether you agree they haven't been innovating, my question stands: if they stop innovating, but remain financially successful, will they still be Apple?

scarface74 7y ago
The TV is a low margin, bulky product with a very long replacement cycle. Nothing about that market is desirable. Besides, people are spending less screen time on televisions every year and more on portable devices.
- vannevar 7y ago
  I'm not suggesting those were good ideas, only that they were rumors about innovative products that got a lot of attention, in part because everyone thought Apple must be up to something, because they hadn't made a big splash in a long time. Maybe the problem isn't that Apple's isn't innovating anymore, but that so many others now are as well, so innovation gets lost in the crowd. Companies like Tesla, Amazon, and Google share a space now that Apple had to itself for a long time.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Tesla - losing money Google - the only thing they are doing profitability is selling ads. Just look at Apple’s revenue split (second graph). How do you think that compares to Google? https://sixcolors.com/post/2019/07/apple-third-quarter-2019-results-and-charts/#more https://sixcolors.com/post/2019/07/apple-third-quarter-2019-... A “successful” product is one that you can sell for more than it costs to make. Anyone can sell dollar bills for 0.95 cents. Amazon? Yes AWS is definitely successful and innovative, but the other half of Amazon?
    - vonmoltke 7y ago
      > Amazon? Yes AWS is definitely successful and innovative, but the other half of Amazon? IIRC, based on their latest report it's the other 30% (by revenue). Amazon is basically a cloud computing provider with a web store.
    - anoncareer0212 7y ago
      Apple-focused threads on HN quickly detach from reality when it comes to Google; Google sells "just ads" like Apple sells "just silicon and plastic"
      - scarface74 7y ago
        So what other significant profit generating verticals does Google have?
    - vannevar 7y ago
      What does any of this have to do with innovation, the topic of the thread? There are lots of very successful companies that don't release innovative consumer products. My point isn't that Apple is a bad company, it's not that other companies are 'better' companies. It's simply that the kind of 'home run' innovation for which Apple is famous has been missing for the last decade. The Apple Watch is a great product, it's very successful. I just don't think it was innovative the same way other Apple products have been. But let's say it is. Going back to my original question (which I've been roundly downvoted for having the temerity to even ask): if Apple stopped innovating, would they still be the same company we love? Would fans still be so emotionally invested that they reflexively attack anyone who publicly criticizes the company, however obliquely?
      - scarface74 7y ago
        I’m asking the same question. What possible home run could any electronic company create that could be a larger market than the phone market? There are 2.75 billion phones in use worldwide. Anything is going to pale in comparison to that market.
Cookingboy 7y ago
Apple now is the world’s largest watch maker both by units sold and by revenue. In fact Apple Watch’s revenue is projected to surpass that of the entire Swiss watch industry this year. Even if it doesn’t “kill” the existing category, I’ll say they did a fantastic job carving out the smartwatch category.
- justapassenger 7y ago
  AKA - watch market is small.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Apple probably sells more watches at a healthier profit than console makers sell. Should the console makers stop selling game systems?
    - justapassenger 7y ago
      That's not relevant. Apple is one of the worlds most valuable company, and they're stagnating. They've been hitting home-runs with products before, and creating new markets. Watch, even if it ends up eating the whole current market, but not creating new one, is a failure by Apple standards. Unless Apple is going to branch out and become company like Samsung, that makes everything from watches, to nuclear power plants. Apple success story was never about big portfolio of products - they were always about few products, but extremely focused and creating whole new markets for them.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        So exactly what category of electronics do you propose that Apple can enter that has a larger worldwide penetration than the smart phone market - there are 2.72 billion smart phone users worldwide (https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-w...)?
        7y ago

scarface74 7y ago

The TV is a low margin, bulky product with a very long replacement cycle. Nothing about that market is desirable. Besides, people are spending less screen time on televisions every year and more on portable devices.

vannevar 7y ago
I'm not suggesting those were good ideas, only that they were rumors about innovative products that got a lot of attention, in part because everyone thought Apple must be up to something, because they hadn't made a big splash in a long time. Maybe the problem isn't that Apple's isn't innovating anymore, but that so many others now are as well, so innovation gets lost in the crowd. Companies like Tesla, Amazon, and Google share a space now that Apple had to itself for a long time.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Tesla - losing money Google - the only thing they are doing profitability is selling ads. Just look at Apple’s revenue split (second graph). How do you think that compares to Google? https://sixcolors.com/post/2019/07/apple-third-quarter-2019-results-and-charts/#more https://sixcolors.com/post/2019/07/apple-third-quarter-2019-... A “successful” product is one that you can sell for more than it costs to make. Anyone can sell dollar bills for 0.95 cents. Amazon? Yes AWS is definitely successful and innovative, but the other half of Amazon?
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    > Amazon? Yes AWS is definitely successful and innovative, but the other half of Amazon? IIRC, based on their latest report it's the other 30% (by revenue). Amazon is basically a cloud computing provider with a web store.
  - anoncareer0212 7y ago
    Apple-focused threads on HN quickly detach from reality when it comes to Google; Google sells "just ads" like Apple sells "just silicon and plastic"
    - scarface74 7y ago
      So what other significant profit generating verticals does Google have?
  - vannevar 7y ago
    What does any of this have to do with innovation, the topic of the thread? There are lots of very successful companies that don't release innovative consumer products. My point isn't that Apple is a bad company, it's not that other companies are 'better' companies. It's simply that the kind of 'home run' innovation for which Apple is famous has been missing for the last decade. The Apple Watch is a great product, it's very successful. I just don't think it was innovative the same way other Apple products have been. But let's say it is. Going back to my original question (which I've been roundly downvoted for having the temerity to even ask): if Apple stopped innovating, would they still be the same company we love? Would fans still be so emotionally invested that they reflexively attack anyone who publicly criticizes the company, however obliquely?
    - scarface74 7y ago
      I’m asking the same question. What possible home run could any electronic company create that could be a larger market than the phone market? There are 2.75 billion phones in use worldwide. Anything is going to pale in comparison to that market.

Cookingboy 7y ago

Apple now is the world’s largest watch maker both by units sold and by revenue. In fact Apple Watch’s revenue is projected to surpass that of the entire Swiss watch industry this year. Even if it doesn’t “kill” the existing category, I’ll say they did a fantastic job carving out the smartwatch category.

justapassenger 7y ago
AKA - watch market is small.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Apple probably sells more watches at a healthier profit than console makers sell. Should the console makers stop selling game systems?
  - justapassenger 7y ago
    That's not relevant. Apple is one of the worlds most valuable company, and they're stagnating. They've been hitting home-runs with products before, and creating new markets. Watch, even if it ends up eating the whole current market, but not creating new one, is a failure by Apple standards. Unless Apple is going to branch out and become company like Samsung, that makes everything from watches, to nuclear power plants. Apple success story was never about big portfolio of products - they were always about few products, but extremely focused and creating whole new markets for them.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      So exactly what category of electronics do you propose that Apple can enter that has a larger worldwide penetration than the smart phone market - there are 2.72 billion smart phone users worldwide (https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-w...)?
      - 7y ago