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> there's just no good reason for a general consumer to purchase an iPhone today * iOS (I prefer it over android) * customers already tied into the apple ecos

> there's just no good reason for a general consumer to purchase an iPhone today * iOS (I prefer it over android) * customers already tied into the apple ecosystem * more of a focus on privacy (admittedly, this one is probably debatable)

toper-centage 7y ago
So it's a mix of Stockholm syndrome and lazyness to change and tweak the system a bit in a more privacy friendly way.
- snazz 7y ago
  Unlocking the bootloader, flashing TWRP, and installing LineageOS without Google Play Services is roughly equivalent in privacy to an iPhone. I wouldn’t blame my grandma for choosing to buy an iPhone instead!
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    A phone with Google Play Services collects less data than an iPhone. To wit: Apple knows every app you ever downloaded, and there is nothing you can do about it. Every time you click on an address link, it sends the address to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. Any time an app looks up your GPS location, that location is sent to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. If you want to write apps for your own device, you need to give card details to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. A phone with Google Play services doesn't suffer from any of these problems.
    - jdofaz 7y ago
      How do you stop Google Play services from sending your location to google without disabling Location Services?
      - lern_too_spel 7y ago
        If you disable Location Services, which is an option presented on initial setup of the device, apps can still request the GPS permission directly (the default behavior in most location libraries), not sending your location to Google. This is not possible on iOS. Every location lookup will send your location to Apple.
        jdofaz 7y ago
        How do you know iOS sends all location lookups to Apple?
        lern_too_spel 7y ago
        Because Apple says so. "By enabling Location Services for your devices, you agree and consent to the transmission, collection, maintenance, processing, and use of your location data and location search queries by Apple and its partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based and road traffic-based products and services." It will also send your location to Apple when no app is requesting your location: "If Location Services is on, your iPhone will periodically send the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers in an anonymous and encrypted form to Apple, to be used for augmenting this crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower locations." Unlike on Android, you cannot get your location without sending this data to Apple: "To use features such as these, you must enable Location Services on your iPhone" https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056
- asdf21 7y ago
  Some people just also don't want to support Google, for various reasons.
snazz 7y ago
The focus on privacy is not at all debatable compared to Android. There’s no way to argue that any Android device sold with Google Play Services (i.e. all of them in the US) is more private than an iPhone. iOS security and privacy is flawed in more than one way, but is infinitely better than Android.
- pas 7y ago
  Exactly what has been leaked from Google? Google makes money by targeting users, not by selling their data. I don't like ads in general, but privacy is not lost because of Google. Cambridge Analytica run on FB for a reason.
r00fus 7y ago
> * more of a focus on privacy (admittedly, this one is probably debatable) Not even sure why this is considered debatable. Even if it's just "perception" (which I doubt) it's a real reason to buy.
- stock_toaster 7y ago
  I couched it a bit, because I've had people argue with me about it in meatspace. It seems odd to me, especially when their stated alternative was predominantly google. People being people I guess.
rubicon33 7y ago
* iOS (I prefer it over android) - Very subjective. Further, from a feature set perspective, you're not missing out on much (anything?) with Android. It used to be that you could only get certain Apps on iOS. That's simply not the case anymore. So it comes down to a raw, subjective preference... Like what color do you prefer - green or blue? * customers already tied into the apple ecosystem - I was in the Apple ecosystem for ~9 years. Switched over to Android this year. Took me all of a couple days to make the switch. Turns out I'm more embedded in Google's ecosystem than I thought. Apple was just a conduit for Google services, in many ways. * more of a focus on privacy (admittedly, this one is probably debatable) - A compelling reason for the technically aware. My post however was about the "general consumer" ... 99% of people are going to be just fine on Android v.s. iOS when it comes to privacy. For god sakes, they're likely already using Facebook/IG.

toper-centage 7y ago

So it's a mix of Stockholm syndrome and lazyness to change and tweak the system a bit in a more privacy friendly way.

snazz 7y ago
Unlocking the bootloader, flashing TWRP, and installing LineageOS without Google Play Services is roughly equivalent in privacy to an iPhone. I wouldn’t blame my grandma for choosing to buy an iPhone instead!
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  A phone with Google Play Services collects less data than an iPhone. To wit: Apple knows every app you ever downloaded, and there is nothing you can do about it. Every time you click on an address link, it sends the address to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. Any time an app looks up your GPS location, that location is sent to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. If you want to write apps for your own device, you need to give card details to Apple, and there is nothing you can do about it. A phone with Google Play services doesn't suffer from any of these problems.
  - jdofaz 7y ago
    How do you stop Google Play services from sending your location to google without disabling Location Services?
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      If you disable Location Services, which is an option presented on initial setup of the device, apps can still request the GPS permission directly (the default behavior in most location libraries), not sending your location to Google. This is not possible on iOS. Every location lookup will send your location to Apple.
      - jdofaz 7y ago
        How do you know iOS sends all location lookups to Apple?
        lern_too_spel 7y ago
        Because Apple says so. "By enabling Location Services for your devices, you agree and consent to the transmission, collection, maintenance, processing, and use of your location data and location search queries by Apple and its partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based and road traffic-based products and services." It will also send your location to Apple when no app is requesting your location: "If Location Services is on, your iPhone will periodically send the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers in an anonymous and encrypted form to Apple, to be used for augmenting this crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower locations." Unlike on Android, you cannot get your location without sending this data to Apple: "To use features such as these, you must enable Location Services on your iPhone" https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056
asdf21 7y ago
Some people just also don't want to support Google, for various reasons.

snazz 7y ago

The focus on privacy is not at all debatable compared to Android. There’s no way to argue that any Android device sold with Google Play Services (i.e. all of them in the US) is more private than an iPhone. iOS security and privacy is flawed in more than one way, but is infinitely better than Android.

pas 7y ago
Exactly what has been leaked from Google? Google makes money by targeting users, not by selling their data. I don't like ads in general, but privacy is not lost because of Google. Cambridge Analytica run on FB for a reason.

r00fus 7y ago

> * more of a focus on privacy (admittedly, this one is probably debatable) Not even sure why this is considered debatable. Even if it's just "perception" (which I doubt) it's a real reason to buy.

stock_toaster 7y ago
I couched it a bit, because I've had people argue with me about it in meatspace. It seems odd to me, especially when their stated alternative was predominantly google. People being people I guess.

rubicon33 7y ago

* iOS (I prefer it over android) - Very subjective. Further, from a feature set perspective, you're not missing out on much (anything?) with Android. It used to be that you could only get certain Apps on iOS. That's simply not the case anymore. So it comes down to a raw, subjective preference... Like what color do you prefer - green or blue? * customers already tied into the apple ecosystem - I was in the Apple ecosystem for ~9 years. Switched over to Android this year. Took me all of a couple days to make the switch. Turns out I'm more embedded in Google's ecosystem than I thought. Apple was just a conduit for Google services, in many ways. * more of a focus on privacy (admittedly, this one is probably debatable) - A compelling reason for the technically aware. My post however was about the "general consumer" ... 99% of people are going to be just fine on Android v.s. iOS when it comes to privacy. For god sakes, they're likely already using Facebook/IG.