4 ms·

This is akin to people who said "why would you want computer-like features on your phone? Everyone who's willing to pay $500+ for a phone already has a laptop!

This is akin to people who said "why would you want computer-like features on your phone? Everyone who's willing to pay $500+ for a phone already has a laptop!" A very large number of would-be content creators (not just Instagram, either - YouTubers also) want the higher image quality, dynamic range, optical zoom, interchangeable lenses, etc. of a full-body camera, but don't want to deal with the clunky interfaces and multi-step processes just to get your images/videos to a format, style, and place you want them. Yes, that's a subset of the market, but it's probably a bigger potential userbase than traditional "pure" photographers.

throwanem 7y ago
Most of the YouTubers to whom I subscribe, who produce video and mention or show the equipment they use to do so, turn out to be using Canon DSLRs. If you're already doing video production, the single additional step of pulling an SD card out of a camera and sticking it in a computer to pull your raw takes off isn't a high bar to clear. With regard to Instagram, sure, you have a point. A DSLR-to-social-media flow doesn't have anything like the same ease of use as one involving a phone camera. But I'm willing to argue that the production values involved in being a serious Instagram influencer, and the degree of artifice that's necessary to that sector's pretense of an artlessly beautiful life, means the bar for switching to an interchangeable-lens system isn't as high as you think it is. Indeed, I'd be astonished if a significant segment of that crowd has not already done so.
jdietrich 7y ago
How many Instagrammers and YouTubers do you personally know? How many conversations have you had with them about their needs, preferences and workflow? Have you ever done a direct image quality comparison between an iPhone X and a mid-range DSLR?
FireBeyond 7y ago
I think any video editing on a ~3in, sub HD screen on the back of a camera is going to be a horrible experience because of sheer logistics (UI, controls), rather than "vision-less manufacturers". Not to mention issues like slow media access speeds, horrible upload speeds, etc. I really don't think video editing on your camera is anywhere the market you think it is. Especially for people wanting "higher IQ, interchangeable lenses", etc. Apart from anything else, most of those people are dealing with B roll, intros, etc., or should the camera have to deal with that? And audio editing, or background music? I don't think this seems like much of an area where you can blame cameras. And it's certainly not a bigger market than "people who want to use a camera to take pictures".
LegitShady 7y ago
All the serious guys are already using pro equipment - DSLRs with interchangeable lenses. And they all have to cut and edit their video, because thats what they do. So being able to edit on a 2" screen when you care about quality to the point where you're getting a DSLR doesn't make any sense, so it isn't implemented.
75dvtwin 7y ago
> A very large number of would-be content creators (not just Instagram, either - YouTubers also) want the higher image quality, dynamic range, optical zoom, interchangeable lenses, I also agree with you. It seems that the most appealing features of modern DSLRs, except fast autofocus, are hidden behind 90s interfaces with multi-button setups and so on. Additionally, modern DSLRs must have appstore-like capabilities built into the camera (rather than into a phone device that attaches to camera). This is where Nikon/Sony/Cannon/Panasonic/Olympus/Pentax(or whoever their new owners are) -- really need to come together with some standard API/interfaces. I am somewhat disappointing that Samsung with their NX line exited the market, they had some interesting features that I would like to see licensed-for-free to other makers -- like lens based controls. There is so much of unexplored UI real-state on the cameras, and opportunity for standardization -- that's is so sad to see complete lack of innovation from the dSLR makers. I do not think vanilla mobile OSes are right platform for the camera... (because of the UIs). If anything, I suspect these companies have the people (or could get them), but they have to change their culture across marketing/support/software engineering areas. Not just how they do business, but how they hire. A somewhat separate example: companies like Panasonic, while excelling at device engineering and manufacturing seem to be completely and utterly incompetent when building phone apps that control their own devices (in this example talking about home security products).
- hestipod 7y ago
  >It seems that the most appealing features of modern >DSLRs, except fast autofocus, are hidden behind 90s >interfaces with multi-button setups and so on. What features are you referring to? Personally as someone who likes to take photos, I find the tactile multi-button/dial interface ideal and don't want a menu driven touch UI. It seems like some people want to co-opt a camera type made primarily for photography and turn it into a social media focused camcorder. I know the companies are trying to tap into that market but it feels like it is turning cameras into jacks of all trades and masters of none. I find the pricing obscene, but some current Leica models are stills only and have very elegant and simple interfaces designed purely for taking photographs. There are high quality cinema cameras all over to choose from. It seems people are pulling the DLSR/interchangeable lens mirrorless camera market in two different directions with opposing goals...photography vs social media/video production.

throwanem 7y ago

Most of the YouTubers to whom I subscribe, who produce video and mention or show the equipment they use to do so, turn out to be using Canon DSLRs. If you're already doing video production, the single additional step of pulling an SD card out of a camera and sticking it in a computer to pull your raw takes off isn't a high bar to clear. With regard to Instagram, sure, you have a point. A DSLR-to-social-media flow doesn't have anything like the same ease of use as one involving a phone camera. But I'm willing to argue that the production values involved in being a serious Instagram influencer, and the degree of artifice that's necessary to that sector's pretense of an artlessly beautiful life, means the bar for switching to an interchangeable-lens system isn't as high as you think it is. Indeed, I'd be astonished if a significant segment of that crowd has not already done so.

jdietrich 7y ago

How many Instagrammers and YouTubers do you personally know? How many conversations have you had with them about their needs, preferences and workflow? Have you ever done a direct image quality comparison between an iPhone X and a mid-range DSLR?

FireBeyond 7y ago

I think any video editing on a ~3in, sub HD screen on the back of a camera is going to be a horrible experience because of sheer logistics (UI, controls), rather than "vision-less manufacturers". Not to mention issues like slow media access speeds, horrible upload speeds, etc. I really don't think video editing on your camera is anywhere the market you think it is. Especially for people wanting "higher IQ, interchangeable lenses", etc. Apart from anything else, most of those people are dealing with B roll, intros, etc., or should the camera have to deal with that? And audio editing, or background music? I don't think this seems like much of an area where you can blame cameras. And it's certainly not a bigger market than "people who want to use a camera to take pictures".

LegitShady 7y ago

All the serious guys are already using pro equipment - DSLRs with interchangeable lenses. And they all have to cut and edit their video, because thats what they do. So being able to edit on a 2" screen when you care about quality to the point where you're getting a DSLR doesn't make any sense, so it isn't implemented.

75dvtwin 7y ago

> A very large number of would-be content creators (not just Instagram, either - YouTubers also) want the higher image quality, dynamic range, optical zoom, interchangeable lenses, I also agree with you. It seems that the most appealing features of modern DSLRs, except fast autofocus, are hidden behind 90s interfaces with multi-button setups and so on. Additionally, modern DSLRs must have appstore-like capabilities built into the camera (rather than into a phone device that attaches to camera). This is where Nikon/Sony/Cannon/Panasonic/Olympus/Pentax(or whoever their new owners are) -- really need to come together with some standard API/interfaces. I am somewhat disappointing that Samsung with their NX line exited the market, they had some interesting features that I would like to see licensed-for-free to other makers -- like lens based controls. There is so much of unexplored UI real-state on the cameras, and opportunity for standardization -- that's is so sad to see complete lack of innovation from the dSLR makers. I do not think vanilla mobile OSes are right platform for the camera... (because of the UIs). If anything, I suspect these companies have the people (or could get them), but they have to change their culture across marketing/support/software engineering areas. Not just how they do business, but how they hire. A somewhat separate example: companies like Panasonic, while excelling at device engineering and manufacturing seem to be completely and utterly incompetent when building phone apps that control their own devices (in this example talking about home security products).

hestipod 7y ago
>It seems that the most appealing features of modern >DSLRs, except fast autofocus, are hidden behind 90s >interfaces with multi-button setups and so on. What features are you referring to? Personally as someone who likes to take photos, I find the tactile multi-button/dial interface ideal and don't want a menu driven touch UI. It seems like some people want to co-opt a camera type made primarily for photography and turn it into a social media focused camcorder. I know the companies are trying to tap into that market but it feels like it is turning cameras into jacks of all trades and masters of none. I find the pricing obscene, but some current Leica models are stills only and have very elegant and simple interfaces designed purely for taking photographs. There are high quality cinema cameras all over to choose from. It seems people are pulling the DLSR/interchangeable lens mirrorless camera market in two different directions with opposing goals...photography vs social media/video production.