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No reasons why? No examples? No comparisons between it and what you would consider "good software"? You might be getting upvoted because the HackerNews hivemin

No reasons why? No examples? No comparisons between it and what you would consider "good software"? You might be getting upvoted because the HackerNews hivemind has a giant hard-on for all things Apple, but don't think for a second that you're actually making a valid point. If you want to start an intelligent discussion then go right ahead, but keep the obvious fanboy flamebait out of this.

Xuzz 16y ago
To avoid reposting the exact same message: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2056896 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2056896
- Pewpewarrows 16y ago
  Certainly valid points, but that isn't even a fraction of what it would take for me to blanket label something as "bad software." Apple definitely took more time polishing the edges of iOS than Google did with Android. Game creation is also a bit lacking with regards to features that developers have access to. That's really the only criticism I can make towards Android having used and developed for both extensively. My list towards iOS on the other hand is much lengthier.
  - Xuzz 16y ago
    I think the issue is that for me, the edges are what make or break it. I can't stand one little thing that bugs me every time I use it (for example, the iOS monstrosity of a notification system). I'm sure Google can make polished and smooth experiences -- just look at Chrome for a great example -- they just haven't done so yet with Android. (Another issue is the embarrassing lack of actual upgrades (likely due to the sheer number of devices) on Android: any improvements won't help if I'm locked into a 2-year contract on a device they won't update.)
  - m0nastic 16y ago
    I try not to conflate my personal experience with Android to the world at large, but after owning two Android phones, I can't imagine ever buying another one (where "ever" is defined as the next few years). The first (a MyTouch 3G) was mediocre software marred by lackluster and underperforming hardware. The second (the T-Mobile version of the Galaxy S) was fairly nice hardware marred by really shitty software (I blame the completely non-functional GPS on the software, as Samsung alleges that it can fix it with a software update). From my perspective, there is one thing Android does better than iOS (notifications), a bunch of things that are approximately equal, and a bunch of things that are terrible.
joeguilmette 16y ago
The UI sucks (ugly, inconsistent). Relative to iOS there is a much, much higher ratio of shitty apps to killer apps. It is too customizable in that non-technical users have a hard time with many features (my girlfriend had no idea how to install, setup or in any way manage widgets, and she is by no means whatsoever computer stupid.). The install procedure for NoLED is a great example of Android's failure to be 'good software' IMO. The devices are various and the vast majority are poorly designed. Battery life, shitty button placement, etc. Yes this is not a software issue but Google allows the software to be licensed to shitty hardware, so they are ultimately culpable. Android allows vendors to include their own forced, uninstallalble software. This is complete bullshit. You are able to install apps that just don't work due to a lack of curation, fragmentation of hardware, and multiple, conflicting app stores. Also, i would argue that your comment is more flame bait than mine was.
- Pewpewarrows 16y ago
  There's an infinite ratio between the killer apps that Android has on its system that Apple doesn't let into its walled garden App Store because it would compete with some included software. Long-presses are a key interactive element of the Android system. The fact that your girlfriend didn't know about it is no more the fault of Google than Apple's for people who don't know that you can swipe with multiple fingers as actions on iOS. You're locked into one device. You can't have a physical keyboard with it, you can't use it on any other carrier, it has the same battery life as Android phones, which ends up becoming worse battery life since you can't carry an extra around with you on long trips. There's no cheaper models either. If you're outside of the US you basically have to dump an entire paycheck or two in order to purchase one. You're forced to spend thousands of dollars on more Mac equipment if you want to develop for iOS. You're forced to use iTunes to sync to it. You're forced to continue to pay Apple a subscription if you want your app to still be available for sale. Developers can sink tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment and employee time into developing an app that will just end up being rejected from the App Store. This is complete bullshit. There is no real notification system. An alert box that you have to immediately react to is horrible UI design. You can't glance to see notifications in summary, and theres no indication that an app needs your attention after the initial alert box unless you happen to browse to its shortcut. And even then the quantity badge does nothing to inform you of what kind of notification it is. It lumps everything into a vague, undefinable number that could mean any combination of things. There's no ecosystem nurturing inter-app communication, which is a nasty bi-product of their half-baked multi-tasking implementation. On Android apps can hook into actions menus that are used by other apps. I can attach media from other apps or send data to be used or edited by another app instantly. This doesn't exist on iOS at all. I can keep going if you'd like. Or you can admit that both products are good on their own merit and at this point it's just a matter of nitpicking and personal taste.

Xuzz 16y ago

To avoid reposting the exact same message: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2056896 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2056896

Pewpewarrows 16y ago
Certainly valid points, but that isn't even a fraction of what it would take for me to blanket label something as "bad software." Apple definitely took more time polishing the edges of iOS than Google did with Android. Game creation is also a bit lacking with regards to features that developers have access to. That's really the only criticism I can make towards Android having used and developed for both extensively. My list towards iOS on the other hand is much lengthier.
- Xuzz 16y ago
  I think the issue is that for me, the edges are what make or break it. I can't stand one little thing that bugs me every time I use it (for example, the iOS monstrosity of a notification system). I'm sure Google can make polished and smooth experiences -- just look at Chrome for a great example -- they just haven't done so yet with Android. (Another issue is the embarrassing lack of actual upgrades (likely due to the sheer number of devices) on Android: any improvements won't help if I'm locked into a 2-year contract on a device they won't update.)
- m0nastic 16y ago
  I try not to conflate my personal experience with Android to the world at large, but after owning two Android phones, I can't imagine ever buying another one (where "ever" is defined as the next few years). The first (a MyTouch 3G) was mediocre software marred by lackluster and underperforming hardware. The second (the T-Mobile version of the Galaxy S) was fairly nice hardware marred by really shitty software (I blame the completely non-functional GPS on the software, as Samsung alleges that it can fix it with a software update). From my perspective, there is one thing Android does better than iOS (notifications), a bunch of things that are approximately equal, and a bunch of things that are terrible.

joeguilmette 16y ago

The UI sucks (ugly, inconsistent). Relative to iOS there is a much, much higher ratio of shitty apps to killer apps. It is too customizable in that non-technical users have a hard time with many features (my girlfriend had no idea how to install, setup or in any way manage widgets, and she is by no means whatsoever computer stupid.). The install procedure for NoLED is a great example of Android's failure to be 'good software' IMO. The devices are various and the vast majority are poorly designed. Battery life, shitty button placement, etc. Yes this is not a software issue but Google allows the software to be licensed to shitty hardware, so they are ultimately culpable. Android allows vendors to include their own forced, uninstallalble software. This is complete bullshit. You are able to install apps that just don't work due to a lack of curation, fragmentation of hardware, and multiple, conflicting app stores. Also, i would argue that your comment is more flame bait than mine was.

Pewpewarrows 16y ago
There's an infinite ratio between the killer apps that Android has on its system that Apple doesn't let into its walled garden App Store because it would compete with some included software. Long-presses are a key interactive element of the Android system. The fact that your girlfriend didn't know about it is no more the fault of Google than Apple's for people who don't know that you can swipe with multiple fingers as actions on iOS. You're locked into one device. You can't have a physical keyboard with it, you can't use it on any other carrier, it has the same battery life as Android phones, which ends up becoming worse battery life since you can't carry an extra around with you on long trips. There's no cheaper models either. If you're outside of the US you basically have to dump an entire paycheck or two in order to purchase one. You're forced to spend thousands of dollars on more Mac equipment if you want to develop for iOS. You're forced to use iTunes to sync to it. You're forced to continue to pay Apple a subscription if you want your app to still be available for sale. Developers can sink tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment and employee time into developing an app that will just end up being rejected from the App Store. This is complete bullshit. There is no real notification system. An alert box that you have to immediately react to is horrible UI design. You can't glance to see notifications in summary, and theres no indication that an app needs your attention after the initial alert box unless you happen to browse to its shortcut. And even then the quantity badge does nothing to inform you of what kind of notification it is. It lumps everything into a vague, undefinable number that could mean any combination of things. There's no ecosystem nurturing inter-app communication, which is a nasty bi-product of their half-baked multi-tasking implementation. On Android apps can hook into actions menus that are used by other apps. I can attach media from other apps or send data to be used or edited by another app instantly. This doesn't exist on iOS at all. I can keep going if you'd like. Or you can admit that both products are good on their own merit and at this point it's just a matter of nitpicking and personal taste.