4 ms·

(Unless you claim that Android is "bad software that actively interferes with usability" (because it doesn't officially support tablets yet, or has custom skins

by Xuzz 16y ago

(Unless you claim that Android is "bad software that actively interferes with usability" (because it doesn't officially support tablets yet, or has custom skins, or isn't integrated, or whatever), which the author seems to be, in a sense, saying. I'm not sure if I agree or not.)

joeguilmette 16y ago
I would say that while popular, Android on the whole is 'bad software' the same way Windows is. Doesn't mean it wont dominate the market.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- ugh 16y ago
  I would argue that Android is currently not in a position to dominate the tablet market in the short term. It’s worse for tablets than Windows was for PCs and it has to (and undoubtedly will) improve in that respect this year. (It was not supposed to run on tablets so you can’t really hold that against Google.) All Android tablets I tried felt like upscaled phones, they use more or less the same phone UI on a bigger screen. That’s just unattractive, why carry around that huge device when using a phone is approximately as comfortable? Tablets have to be more comfortable to use than phones. iOS makes better use of the additional real estate and using it is more fun than using a phone. It’s not just a huge iPod touch.
  - enjo 16y ago
    That's the entire point of Honeycomb. It's too provide native support for tablet interfaces. *edit: native support for native interfaces doesn't make any sense:)
  - Pewpewarrows 16y ago
    > It’s not just a huge iPod touch. Yes, it is. The only difference you're seeing is that developers for iOS apps have accommodated for the additional screen real estate after its release. Developers of Android apps haven't yet because the OS isn't officially ready for tablets until Honeycomb. Once an official Android tablet is released post-Honeycomb can you actually start to make comparisons.
    - ugh 16y ago
      I don’t understand why you are contradicting me. I think we agree. I was talking about the state of Android tablets – specifically their UI – right now, even saying that I expect Android to improve this year. I don’t expect Android to remain as bad a fit for tablets as it is right now in the future but iOS has undoubtedly had a head start. (You could argue that Google has already demonstrated that they can catch up with the iPhone so I’m not sure how predictive such a head start is.) That seems to me to be exactly the same you are saying. I’m not sure how you then arrive at the conclusion that the iPad is just a huge iPod touch. Its apps have a different UI, making use of the larger screen (as you said), so it is different, at least in that respect (and I wasn’t claiming anything more).
    - joeguilmette 16y ago
      I would agree that the iPad is essentially a giant iPod touch. Owning both an iPhone and an iPad, i see this as a massive compliment. I disagree that you can't compare an iPad to a Galaxy Tab. Of course you can. They are both tablets. If Android 'isn't ready' ready for tablets then they shouldn't be selling them. But they are. Which means you can make comparisons and draw conclusions about iOS vs Android in regards to tablets.
      - darshan 16y ago
        "Android" isn't selling tablets. Android is an open-source operating system for smartphones. Some manufacturers have taken this smartphone OS and released tablets using it, and you're certainly free to compare them with the iPad. Any such comparison is likely to demonstrate that Apple did well in getting a usable tablet to market well before the competition, but it's fairly pointless to a discussion of the future of the tablet market, however. Within the next 2-3 months, Android 2.4 (or maybe 3.0; codenamed Honeycomb, in any case) will be released, and at that point it will be an OS designed for both smartphones AND tablets. We're expecting to find out more about this version of Android (and the Motorola tablet Google engineers are designing it for, possibly called the XOOM) at CES in a few days. What little we know so far makes it look that high-end Android tablets will be very competitive with the iPad once a version of Android exists that is designed for tablets. In summary: kudos to Apple for getting to market first, but things are about to get interesting once we can compare Android-for-tablets with iOS-for-tablets.
- enjo 16y ago
  Really? You really believe that? I've been using an Android phone exclusively for the last year. I love it. I'm hardly alone. I find it a superior experience to the iPhone in a lot of ways.
  - Xuzz 16y ago
    One example: Android still doesn't use the GPU for the interface, so the scrolling on a brand-new Nexus S still isn't as smooth as on a three-plus year old iPhone 2G. Plus, the lists don't bounce at the end, so not only is it choppier but it's (slightly) disconcerting to hit the end of a list as well (maybe the Gingerbread green flashes will help here, but a bounce just is more natural). (This is not to say I only like Apple things. I think that Windows Phone 7 has the best and most consistent UI/UX of them all, currently, and webOS is quite nice as well.)
    - blinkingled 16y ago
      The thing is not many people care about how smoothly their lists scroll unless it actively hampers what they are doing. The people who care are mostly the paranoid ones - I know several people who use Android phone (one an $29 Optimus) and I bet you they will have a puzzled face if you told them anything about list scrolling! Good enough is good to go for them.
- Pewpewarrows 16y ago
  No reasons why? No examples? No comparisons between it and what you would consider "good software"? You might be getting upvoted because the HackerNews hivemind has a giant hard-on for all things Apple, but don't think for a second that you're actually making a valid point. If you want to start an intelligent discussion then go right ahead, but keep the obvious fanboy flamebait out of this.
  - Xuzz 16y ago
    To avoid reposting the exact same message: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2056896 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2056896
    - Pewpewarrows 16y ago
      Certainly valid points, but that isn't even a fraction of what it would take for me to blanket label something as "bad software." Apple definitely took more time polishing the edges of iOS than Google did with Android. Game creation is also a bit lacking with regards to features that developers have access to. That's really the only criticism I can make towards Android having used and developed for both extensively. My list towards iOS on the other hand is much lengthier.
      - Xuzz 16y ago
        I think the issue is that for me, the edges are what make or break it. I can't stand one little thing that bugs me every time I use it (for example, the iOS monstrosity of a notification system). I'm sure Google can make polished and smooth experiences -- just look at Chrome for a great example -- they just haven't done so yet with Android. (Another issue is the embarrassing lack of actual upgrades (likely due to the sheer number of devices) on Android: any improvements won't help if I'm locked into a 2-year contract on a device they won't update.)
      - m0nastic 16y ago
        I try not to conflate my personal experience with Android to the world at large, but after owning two Android phones, I can't imagine ever buying another one (where "ever" is defined as the next few years). The first (a MyTouch 3G) was mediocre software marred by lackluster and underperforming hardware. The second (the T-Mobile version of the Galaxy S) was fairly nice hardware marred by really shitty software (I blame the completely non-functional GPS on the software, as Samsung alleges that it can fix it with a software update). From my perspective, there is one thing Android does better than iOS (notifications), a bunch of things that are approximately equal, and a bunch of things that are terrible.
- blinkingled 16y ago
  If you were talking from 1999 that statement might be true. Not in 2010. Even the biggest Apple fan Walt Mossberg says Windows 7 is as good if not better than OSX. That's what I am happily running on my 17" MBP as OS X has no working high DPI support and that kills my eyes @1920x1200.

by Xuzz 16y ago

joeguilmette 16y ago

I would say that while popular, Android on the whole is 'bad software' the same way Windows is. Doesn't mean it wont dominate the market.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
ugh 16y ago
I would argue that Android is currently not in a position to dominate the tablet market in the short term. It’s worse for tablets than Windows was for PCs and it has to (and undoubtedly will) improve in that respect this year. (It was not supposed to run on tablets so you can’t really hold that against Google.) All Android tablets I tried felt like upscaled phones, they use more or less the same phone UI on a bigger screen. That’s just unattractive, why carry around that huge device when using a phone is approximately as comfortable? Tablets have to be more comfortable to use than phones. iOS makes better use of the additional real estate and using it is more fun than using a phone. It’s not just a huge iPod touch.
- enjo 16y ago
  That's the entire point of Honeycomb. It's too provide native support for tablet interfaces. *edit: native support for native interfaces doesn't make any sense:)
- Pewpewarrows 16y ago
  > It’s not just a huge iPod touch. Yes, it is. The only difference you're seeing is that developers for iOS apps have accommodated for the additional screen real estate after its release. Developers of Android apps haven't yet because the OS isn't officially ready for tablets until Honeycomb. Once an official Android tablet is released post-Honeycomb can you actually start to make comparisons.
  - ugh 16y ago
    I don’t understand why you are contradicting me. I think we agree. I was talking about the state of Android tablets – specifically their UI – right now, even saying that I expect Android to improve this year. I don’t expect Android to remain as bad a fit for tablets as it is right now in the future but iOS has undoubtedly had a head start. (You could argue that Google has already demonstrated that they can catch up with the iPhone so I’m not sure how predictive such a head start is.) That seems to me to be exactly the same you are saying. I’m not sure how you then arrive at the conclusion that the iPad is just a huge iPod touch. Its apps have a different UI, making use of the larger screen (as you said), so it is different, at least in that respect (and I wasn’t claiming anything more).
  - joeguilmette 16y ago
    I would agree that the iPad is essentially a giant iPod touch. Owning both an iPhone and an iPad, i see this as a massive compliment. I disagree that you can't compare an iPad to a Galaxy Tab. Of course you can. They are both tablets. If Android 'isn't ready' ready for tablets then they shouldn't be selling them. But they are. Which means you can make comparisons and draw conclusions about iOS vs Android in regards to tablets.
    - darshan 16y ago
      "Android" isn't selling tablets. Android is an open-source operating system for smartphones. Some manufacturers have taken this smartphone OS and released tablets using it, and you're certainly free to compare them with the iPad. Any such comparison is likely to demonstrate that Apple did well in getting a usable tablet to market well before the competition, but it's fairly pointless to a discussion of the future of the tablet market, however. Within the next 2-3 months, Android 2.4 (or maybe 3.0; codenamed Honeycomb, in any case) will be released, and at that point it will be an OS designed for both smartphones AND tablets. We're expecting to find out more about this version of Android (and the Motorola tablet Google engineers are designing it for, possibly called the XOOM) at CES in a few days. What little we know so far makes it look that high-end Android tablets will be very competitive with the iPad once a version of Android exists that is designed for tablets. In summary: kudos to Apple for getting to market first, but things are about to get interesting once we can compare Android-for-tablets with iOS-for-tablets.
enjo 16y ago
Really? You really believe that? I've been using an Android phone exclusively for the last year. I love it. I'm hardly alone. I find it a superior experience to the iPhone in a lot of ways.
- Xuzz 16y ago
  One example: Android still doesn't use the GPU for the interface, so the scrolling on a brand-new Nexus S still isn't as smooth as on a three-plus year old iPhone 2G. Plus, the lists don't bounce at the end, so not only is it choppier but it's (slightly) disconcerting to hit the end of a list as well (maybe the Gingerbread green flashes will help here, but a bounce just is more natural). (This is not to say I only like Apple things. I think that Windows Phone 7 has the best and most consistent UI/UX of them all, currently, and webOS is quite nice as well.)
  - blinkingled 16y ago
    The thing is not many people care about how smoothly their lists scroll unless it actively hampers what they are doing. The people who care are mostly the paranoid ones - I know several people who use Android phone (one an $29 Optimus) and I bet you they will have a puzzled face if you told them anything about list scrolling! Good enough is good to go for them.
Pewpewarrows 16y ago
No reasons why? No examples? No comparisons between it and what you would consider "good software"? You might be getting upvoted because the HackerNews hivemind has a giant hard-on for all things Apple, but don't think for a second that you're actually making a valid point. If you want to start an intelligent discussion then go right ahead, but keep the obvious fanboy flamebait out of this.
- Xuzz 16y ago
  To avoid reposting the exact same message: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2056896 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2056896
  - Pewpewarrows 16y ago
    Certainly valid points, but that isn't even a fraction of what it would take for me to blanket label something as "bad software." Apple definitely took more time polishing the edges of iOS than Google did with Android. Game creation is also a bit lacking with regards to features that developers have access to. That's really the only criticism I can make towards Android having used and developed for both extensively. My list towards iOS on the other hand is much lengthier.
    - Xuzz 16y ago
      I think the issue is that for me, the edges are what make or break it. I can't stand one little thing that bugs me every time I use it (for example, the iOS monstrosity of a notification system). I'm sure Google can make polished and smooth experiences -- just look at Chrome for a great example -- they just haven't done so yet with Android. (Another issue is the embarrassing lack of actual upgrades (likely due to the sheer number of devices) on Android: any improvements won't help if I'm locked into a 2-year contract on a device they won't update.)
    - m0nastic 16y ago
      I try not to conflate my personal experience with Android to the world at large, but after owning two Android phones, I can't imagine ever buying another one (where "ever" is defined as the next few years). The first (a MyTouch 3G) was mediocre software marred by lackluster and underperforming hardware. The second (the T-Mobile version of the Galaxy S) was fairly nice hardware marred by really shitty software (I blame the completely non-functional GPS on the software, as Samsung alleges that it can fix it with a software update). From my perspective, there is one thing Android does better than iOS (notifications), a bunch of things that are approximately equal, and a bunch of things that are terrible.
blinkingled 16y ago
If you were talking from 1999 that statement might be true. Not in 2010. Even the biggest Apple fan Walt Mossberg says Windows 7 is as good if not better than OSX. That's what I am happily running on my 17" MBP as OS X has no working high DPI support and that kills my eyes @1920x1200.