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Everyone is presenting false versions of themselves, especially the people who present themselves as a true version of themselves. I'm admittedly quite sadenne

Everyone is presenting false versions of themselves, especially the people who present themselves as a true version of themselves. I'm admittedly quite sadenned by the continued commodification of female appearances in this manner. I am curious if male vlogging has similar tricks to get more $$$.

hestipod 7y ago
I don't agree with this. At least except not in the most pedantic philosophical sense. My role models were people who acted the same when they didn't know anyone was looking, or there was no reward. They didn't put on fake personas or dramatically code switch. They didn't primp and accessorize to meet some vain expectation. They were of course respectful of others expectations and wouldn't go to a funeral in pajamas or anything selfishly ridiculous, but they were genuine, empathetic, kind....honest. I try to emulate them the best I can. Any human failings in that trying is not at all the same thing as the fraud that this article and so many perpetrate to gain something.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  The examples you provide are more exaggerated than I am saying. Even your greatest role models have probably genuinely thought harm to others in flashes of anger, done things to people that they later regret, have their moments of genuine cruelty to other. But interacting with them doesn't mean you get a list of all their sins and insecurities at the time, and neither are you obligated to them, which makes them seem untarnished by all their bad things they done, thought, believed, so on and so forth. And they won't tell you either, not until you get to really know them.
  - hestipod 7y ago
    As I said, the normal human failings/thoughts/emotions are not the same thing as this articles premise. I also do not accept that everyone has moments of cruelty. Cruel thoughts are not the same thing. We all think things and choosing how we react is the difference. I feel that trying to claim even the best people are secretly hiding evils is an attempt to feel better about one's own feelings or actions. I am confident in the examples I look up to be sure I "know" their true natures.
    - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
      My agrument is not the article's premise applies equally to everyone in severity. My argument is that people are never who they present themselves to be. This is due a variety of things, a mix of intentional avoidance of topics and impossibility to completely share a lifetime experience with another, atomic human mind. That you assume this claim is itself a deceptive act is an easy cognitive shortcut from parsing that I could be potentially as honest as you in my viewpoint. Why do that?
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - hestipod 7y ago
        Because I don't see the fact that we have to present ourselves to the outside world with some form of restraint or self censorship to function (your technically correct "not who we appear to be") as remotely the same thing as fraud designed to manipulate/profit. I don't think it's reasonable at all to put those in the same box as some proof "everyone does it".
        SolaceQuantum 7y ago
        The requirements of society are to practice restraint and portray ourselves at our best. It’s manipulation, mutually agreed upon and without negative connotation. Being able to observe extreme and moderate things at the same time doesn’t make them completely different actions that aren’t at all related.
sschueller 7y ago
Yes, steroids. The usage is rampant.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  No, I mean why doesn't pewdiepie accent his cheekbones some more via technology. Maybe make his arms bigger. IDK.
  - dlivingston 7y ago
    Male beauty is not valued as highly among men and women as female beauty. It's all too easy to speculate on the evolutionary and sociocultural reasons why, but it is the reality.
    - fizwhiz 7y ago
      Citation needed
      - dlivingston 7y ago
        Really? I thought that was common knowledge. But regardless: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0201347 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... "Beauty is only skin-deep, but the perceived absence of beauty may lead to damaging social bias. Compared to men, women may suffer more from social anxiety, prejudice, and inequality based on their appearance [1,2]. To comprehend beauty-related socio-cultural phenomena, many studies have examined the pursuit of beauty related to body image, body perception, a body-related self-concept, and body satisfaction [3–5]. These studies have clarified factors that impact and result in the pursuit of beauty. However, although numerous previous studies on these aspects of beauty have been conducted, there is still a considerable controversy about why women, in particular, are focused on with a beautiful appearance."
    - fortran77 7y ago
      Are you kidding? My office is located next door to a gym (which I use). Guys care a _lot_ about their beauty.
dlivingston 7y ago
> I am curious if male vlogging has similar tricks to get more $$$. This Chinese incident is just another example of 'female beauty as a commodity'. You can also see this effect with Instagram influencers (where females vastly outnumber men), the modeling industry, the cam model industry, etc.

hestipod 7y ago

I don't agree with this. At least except not in the most pedantic philosophical sense. My role models were people who acted the same when they didn't know anyone was looking, or there was no reward. They didn't put on fake personas or dramatically code switch. They didn't primp and accessorize to meet some vain expectation. They were of course respectful of others expectations and wouldn't go to a funeral in pajamas or anything selfishly ridiculous, but they were genuine, empathetic, kind....honest. I try to emulate them the best I can. Any human failings in that trying is not at all the same thing as the fraud that this article and so many perpetrate to gain something.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
The examples you provide are more exaggerated than I am saying. Even your greatest role models have probably genuinely thought harm to others in flashes of anger, done things to people that they later regret, have their moments of genuine cruelty to other. But interacting with them doesn't mean you get a list of all their sins and insecurities at the time, and neither are you obligated to them, which makes them seem untarnished by all their bad things they done, thought, believed, so on and so forth. And they won't tell you either, not until you get to really know them.
- hestipod 7y ago
  As I said, the normal human failings/thoughts/emotions are not the same thing as this articles premise. I also do not accept that everyone has moments of cruelty. Cruel thoughts are not the same thing. We all think things and choosing how we react is the difference. I feel that trying to claim even the best people are secretly hiding evils is an attempt to feel better about one's own feelings or actions. I am confident in the examples I look up to be sure I "know" their true natures.
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    My agrument is not the article's premise applies equally to everyone in severity. My argument is that people are never who they present themselves to be. This is due a variety of things, a mix of intentional avoidance of topics and impossibility to completely share a lifetime experience with another, atomic human mind. That you assume this claim is itself a deceptive act is an easy cognitive shortcut from parsing that I could be potentially as honest as you in my viewpoint. Why do that?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - hestipod 7y ago
      Because I don't see the fact that we have to present ourselves to the outside world with some form of restraint or self censorship to function (your technically correct "not who we appear to be") as remotely the same thing as fraud designed to manipulate/profit. I don't think it's reasonable at all to put those in the same box as some proof "everyone does it".
      - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
        The requirements of society are to practice restraint and portray ourselves at our best. It’s manipulation, mutually agreed upon and without negative connotation. Being able to observe extreme and moderate things at the same time doesn’t make them completely different actions that aren’t at all related.

sschueller 7y ago

Yes, steroids. The usage is rampant.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
No, I mean why doesn't pewdiepie accent his cheekbones some more via technology. Maybe make his arms bigger. IDK.
- dlivingston 7y ago
  Male beauty is not valued as highly among men and women as female beauty. It's all too easy to speculate on the evolutionary and sociocultural reasons why, but it is the reality.
  - fizwhiz 7y ago
    Citation needed
    - dlivingston 7y ago
      Really? I thought that was common knowledge. But regardless: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0201347 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... "Beauty is only skin-deep, but the perceived absence of beauty may lead to damaging social bias. Compared to men, women may suffer more from social anxiety, prejudice, and inequality based on their appearance [1,2]. To comprehend beauty-related socio-cultural phenomena, many studies have examined the pursuit of beauty related to body image, body perception, a body-related self-concept, and body satisfaction [3–5]. These studies have clarified factors that impact and result in the pursuit of beauty. However, although numerous previous studies on these aspects of beauty have been conducted, there is still a considerable controversy about why women, in particular, are focused on with a beautiful appearance."
  - fortran77 7y ago
    Are you kidding? My office is located next door to a gym (which I use). Guys care a _lot_ about their beauty.

dlivingston 7y ago

> I am curious if male vlogging has similar tricks to get more $$$. This Chinese incident is just another example of 'female beauty as a commodity'. You can also see this effect with Instagram influencers (where females vastly outnumber men), the modeling industry, the cam model industry, etc.