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Their integrated renderers don't work on newer macOS versions with AMD cards unfortunately, no metal support. macOS id really a bad place right now if you're in
by deltron3030 7y ago
Their integrated renderers don't work on newer macOS versions with AMD cards unfortunately, no metal support. macOS id really a bad place right now if you're into 3D and want GPU rendering, not only because of Blender, but others like Cinema 4D aren't there yet either.
It's a big fail of the Apple management to not support the metal development for apps like Blender, they gonna lose a generation of creatives.
- pier25 7y ago> they gonna lose a generation of creatives Haven't they already? I don't do 3D but anecdotally the 3D guys I know all use Windows.
- santaclaus 7y agoFilm 3D is mostly Linux at this point. All the major VFX shops (like Weta) and animation studios (Disney, Pixar, etc) are on Linux for artist workstations. Apple stuff gets lots of use, but mainly iPads for story boarding and such.
- atkbrah 7y agoIndeed, many bigger VFX companies are on Linux. However, smaller shops are mainly powered by Windows (or at least that's the case here in Finland). Building your production pipeline on Linux is something that not everyone is capable of doing and in many cases not even worth the r&d costs.
- mdre 7y agoI always wondered what do the replace photoshop with on Linux, haven’t worked in the industry yet.
- pier25 7y agoI imagine in bigger VFX companies the texture artists use Windows or Mac and produce the assets for the 3D guys which use Linux.
- atkbrah 7y agoFoundry's Mari [1] is pretty heavily used in bigger VFX houses for texturing and it is also available for Linux. Likewise, Allegorithmic's (now owned by Adobe) Substance is available for Linux [2]. 1. https://www.foundry.com/products/mari/requirements https://www.foundry.com/products/mari/requirements 2. https://www.substance3d.com/products/tech-specs https://www.substance3d.com/products/tech-specs
- boudewijnrempt 7y agoI've tried for ages (since 2010...) to get the VFX studios to work with me on making Krita good enough for their needs. I've visited dneg, worked with Intel and other parties, but in the end, the studios yell they want to get rid of the shared windows/photoshop pc in the corner office -- but don't want to put in any actual effort. In the meantime, we're getting there anyway.
- desi_ninja 7y agomy single experience with Krita is trying to load hdr raw images in it where it failed with no major error
- Tinfoilhat666 7y agoPixar seems to love the new Mac Pro and metal: This new machine clearly shows Apple is delivering on the needs of professionals at high-end production facilities like Pixar.” https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/pro-app-developers-react-to-the-new-mac-pro-and-pro-display-xdr/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/pro-app-developers-re...
- p1necone 7y agoThis is Apple marketing spiel. They probably got those testimonials after demoing some new products to executives for a day and then asking for a paragraph to put on a website. (Also almost every single one of those is from a CEO or VP, not someone who's job it is to actually use these things.)
- petepete 7y agoPixar have historically been linked with Apple, though. I wonder if they're currently using the current 'trashcan' Mac Pro, which I imagine would be quite limiting.
- noir_lord 7y ago"been linked" understates it a bit tbh. > Pixar began in 1979 as the Graphics Group, part of the Lucasfilm computer division, before its spin-out as a corporation in 1986, with funding by Apple Inc. co-founder Steve Jobs, who became the majority shareholder.
- inflatableDodo 7y agoPixar are a bit of an Apple offshoot in the first place though. They are very likely to get Apple kit substantially cheaper than most. "Steve wasn’t capable of being friends. That wasn’t his personality. Besides the Apple stuff, I had a lot to do with his Pixar thing. I was contacted by the people who became Pixar–I knew them well, and they wanted to get out of Lucasfilm. They called me up and asked me for advice, and so I said, I can talk to Steve. I explained very carefully to him who these people were, and you shouldn’t fuck around with them, like he did with his normal employees. He did a good job with them. [Pixar] was the most honest billion he ever made, because he put a lot of his own personal money into nurturing those guys. They got fabulous. That was Steve’s best hour." Alan Kay - https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-about-the-iphone-and-technology-now https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-ab...
- ghostly_s 7y agoWhat software suites are these companies using? I know some of these huge companies have their own in-house stuff but are the big commercial modelling products supporting linux now? I wasn't aware there were really options aside from blender. Also kind of surprises me that artists would be happy on a platform where you can't fire up Photoshop to muck around with a texture map.
- boudewijnrempt 7y agoHoudini, Maya, Nuke -- all the really big names are on Linux and have been there for a decade or more.
- themodelplumber 7y agoBack when I was doing a lot of 3D and other work that required Photoshop, I used a VM in Linux to make that work. This was back in 2008-2009 though, so I'm not sure if others do that anymore or just use a different PC, other software, etc.
- billfruit 7y agoI've heard Pixar uses RenderMan extensively, which I think uses Linux as its primary platform.
- mroche 7y agoPixar develops and sells RenderMan. The engine itself support Linux as the primary use case, but also Windows and macOS. They all support the same feature-set with the exception of Optix on macOS.
- deltron3030 7y ago>Haven't they already? 3D motion design was actually quite Mac centric, because many people came into it from 2D graphic design where Macs are widely used. Folks just kept their old Mac Pros and went with fat GPU's for rendering in the last 5 years or so. But with Nvidia dominating in the GPU rendering space and Apples stance against Nvidia it's kind of a roads end for professional 3D people. It's not that it would cut into Apples profits directly, but good artists and designers are taste makers, it hurts Apple as a brand going forward, 3D is only getting more popular with AR.
- p1necone 7y agoApple has always marketed their products as being for creative professionals, but has that ever actually been the reality? Feels to me like that marketing is really intended to hook non professionals into thinking that that's what they need to be successful.
- dman 7y agoApples attitude towards OpenGL/Vulkan/OpenCL is super frustrating.
- deadcast 7y agoYeah forget metal. Apple should focus more on supporting opengl. DirectX and GL are already fantastic graphical APIs.
- pjmlp 7y agoHence why no single games console makes use of OpenGL.
- danudey 7y agoI don't think anyone who works in the industry thinks that OpenGL or DirectX (pre-12) are "fantastic graphical APIs" unless judging solely on install base. Everything I've heard says that Vulkan and Metal both are far more efficient, let you get more out of the hardware with less CPU time, and can more easily support newer features. OpenGL as a major target platform is dying, it's just a question of how long the tail is.
- microcolonel 7y agoThe problem is that Apple did not follow the natural death curve of OpenGL (which is generally in favour of Vulkan, and libraries built on it), they just completely stopped working on supporting new OpenGL extensions and versions since 2010 (!), and didn't have metal macOS until 2017. Even from the perspective of bringing people smoothly to their proprietary API, they have failed miserably.
- devthane 7y agoI have a friend with a recent macbook pro who has been following this situation. I believe the answer for blender is https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/radeon-prorender-downloads https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/radeon-prorender-downloa... Which I think is ready now as well. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
- danudey 7y agoI've worked (as an IT/desktop support person) with some of our animation artists, and I found ProRender was a very promising project which immediately failed for us with no real hope of recovery. The issue that we had was that a lot of functionality that works in Cycles didn't work in ProRender, which would have required our artists to rework potentially large parts of their 3D scenes, and to also use different techniques to accomplish certain affects in the future (meaning many tutorials or examples might no longer match up). I'm not sure what the specifics are, since I didn't really understand how 3D scenes are made, but basically something like some texture effects or something (??) weren't available in ProRender, and so those effects would have to be removed or redone. Unless they've changed something since then (added support for whatever it is), I think this will still be the same issue.
- devthane 7y agoFrom looking at the release notes, while still not perfect, it looks like things have improved significantly with this update. https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-prorender-blender-v2-0-blender-2-8 https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-prorender...
- AareyBaba 7y agoThis was uploaded today https://youtu.be/sqeS2HvZzv4?t=75 https://youtu.be/sqeS2HvZzv4?t=75 Free plug-ins are available for Blender™ 2.80 for Windows®, macOS®, and Linux®
- valine 7y agoOr, you know, if Apple put the smallest amount of effort into maintaining their OpenGL drivers. Why should Blender have to maintain multiple implementations of their renderer? Even if Apple supported it financially, having multiple implementations of Eevee would add development complexity and make it harder for the community to contribute features.
- tomxor 7y ago> if Apple put the smallest amount of effort into maintaining their OpenGL drivers They ditched OpenGL? how does that work?
- anchpop 7y agoApple has deprecated OpenGL on all its devices: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12894/apple-deprecates-opengl-across-all-oses https://www.anandtech.com/show/12894/apple-deprecates-opengl...
- rhapsodyv 7y agoNoob question: There's a way to write a OpenGL drive that uses Metal underneath?
- tollyx 7y agoIt's probably possible yes. I don't know if one already exist for OpenGL, but for Vulkan there's MoltenVK: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- danudey 7y agoThe same company which originally built MoltenVK built MoltenGL for specifically this purpose. https://moltengl.com/moltengl/ https://moltengl.com/moltengl/
- chewyland 7y agoDoesn't anyone think that MacOS is pretty much abandonware at this point? I don't want to stir anything up but I don't believe Apple is putting too much effort into the OS at this time. When I boot my MacBook into MacOS (once a year, if that) I feel like I'm 10 years back in time (yes, I have the absolute latest version). I think they're focusing most of their resources on ARM. Or, I'm probably just crazy.
- skrowl 7y agoAnyone who listens to their quarter earnings calls knows that macOS is pretty far down the priority list. #1 is billed services (iCloud, Apple Music, etc) #2 is iOS devices (mostly iPhone) a very distant #3 is laptops and desktops macOS is nowhere on the list because it doesn't make them any money.
- okcando 7y agoI would consider it part of laptops and desktops, for which macOS is essential.
- skrowl 7y agoPeople who are upgrading to new Macs aren't doing it to get a new version of macOS, they're doing it to get the new hardware bits.
- okcando 7y agoYes but macOS is a large part of the appeal of getting a Mac in the first place and Macs have really healthy margins for the industry, ergo it's making money and isn't free as such. It plus seven years or so of upgrades are built into the price. They also do not directly sell iOS or its upgrades but we'd hardly say iOS isn't making money.
- robbrown451 7y agoNo but when I need a new laptop (soon), it doesn't look like it will be mac this time (as it has been for the last 15 years).
- knolan 7y agoI'm running the 2.80 release candidate on my 5k iMac with an AMD card on 10.14. It doesn't support rendering on the GPU but the CPU rendering works just fine. I can't imagine the GPU is any faster than the CPU either, certainly the case for my 750M in my 2014 15" rMBP.
- pjmlp 7y agoThe ones that matter already have Metal support in place.
- povertyworld 7y agoOctane is supposedly going to release a version that works with AMD using Metal on MacOS soon.
- p1necone 7y agoHasn't Apples support of 3d hardware been rubbish for like... forever?
- sbr464 7y agoIf really needed, you can connect a 1080Ti etc pretty easily with an external thunderbolt enclosure. I use one from Sonnet, it works well.