4 ms·

> Also, while I think kids in US schools are treated way too much like paying customers, it seemed that in Italian schools students were seen in some cases as m

> Also, while I think kids in US schools are treated way too much like paying customers, it seemed that in Italian schools students were seen in some cases as more of a burden to be dealt with. In America you tend to get both. Administration treats you like a customer (in the sense that they see a wallet with legs when they look at you) while the professors frequently seem to view teaching courses as a chore that gets in the way of their research. Of course there are plenty of exceptions to go around, but all-in-all it's generally pretty crap.

dv_dt 7y ago
Name any other industry that gets a detailed map of your finances and savings before issuing a price for their services. It's a recipe for maximal extraction.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  This is just an offshoot of the financial industry though.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Name any other industry that gets a detailed map of your finances and savings before issuing a price for their services. But, higher ed doesn't. They set a price in advance, and get that information if/when you ask for a public subsidy (which the university may require you to do and to share the information as a condition of offering their own discounts, framed as self-issued subsidiies.) Pretty much every industry can ask for that kind of information as a condition of offering discounts, though they may not have public subsidies available or be able to get the information used in public subsidy applications directly.
  - dv_dt 7y ago
    They set an extremely high price in advance and give discounts based on that information. So unless you can afford the fully fund that price out of pocket, you have to come to the table and get gov't help, which then requires the disclosure. And this is across the entire system, so it's not like you can go to a differently behaving entity.
- slg 7y ago
  The government. I pay more in taxes not because I use more roads, need more protection from our military, or send more kids to the local school. I pay more because the government knows I can afford it. That is how the system was designed and it is completely appropriate in my opinion. College is just a continuation of that since it is in part funded by the government. Except in recent decades we have shifted the burden from the overall taxpayer to the students themselves (and their parents). However the basic idea that the people who have more money should pay more for the service has stuck around. I can't say I disagree with that approach even if it does incentivize weird loopholes like the one discussed in the article.
  - dv_dt 7y ago
    I agree with people with more paying more into the general fund of the government. But when major parts of the US budget get deficit funded, why does higher education get individually loaded cost wise? It makes no sense, there's no real need to discourage people from getting too much education. And long term loans, are just as inflationary to issue to the economy - and when you collect the interest back long term, you're just causing a drag on economic expansion.
    - slg 7y ago
      I completely agree with you that this approach to education isn't ideal and that we collectively would be better off if the onus for funding education was shifted back to the general tax payer again. That said, if you have a system in which the education dollars are limits, like we currently do, the best approach in my opinion is to charge people based on their ability to pay.
davidw 7y ago
I guess that depends on the school. I think professors in 'regular' schools are pretty available to students in the US.
- liability 7y ago
  Yes, that's a good point. Different schools have different teaching/research balances and I would expect to find a difference there in the average attitudes of the professors.

dv_dt 7y ago

Name any other industry that gets a detailed map of your finances and savings before issuing a price for their services. It's a recipe for maximal extraction.

cameronbrown 7y ago
This is just an offshoot of the financial industry though.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> Name any other industry that gets a detailed map of your finances and savings before issuing a price for their services. But, higher ed doesn't. They set a price in advance, and get that information if/when you ask for a public subsidy (which the university may require you to do and to share the information as a condition of offering their own discounts, framed as self-issued subsidiies.) Pretty much every industry can ask for that kind of information as a condition of offering discounts, though they may not have public subsidies available or be able to get the information used in public subsidy applications directly.
- dv_dt 7y ago
  They set an extremely high price in advance and give discounts based on that information. So unless you can afford the fully fund that price out of pocket, you have to come to the table and get gov't help, which then requires the disclosure. And this is across the entire system, so it's not like you can go to a differently behaving entity.
slg 7y ago
The government. I pay more in taxes not because I use more roads, need more protection from our military, or send more kids to the local school. I pay more because the government knows I can afford it. That is how the system was designed and it is completely appropriate in my opinion. College is just a continuation of that since it is in part funded by the government. Except in recent decades we have shifted the burden from the overall taxpayer to the students themselves (and their parents). However the basic idea that the people who have more money should pay more for the service has stuck around. I can't say I disagree with that approach even if it does incentivize weird loopholes like the one discussed in the article.
- dv_dt 7y ago
  I agree with people with more paying more into the general fund of the government. But when major parts of the US budget get deficit funded, why does higher education get individually loaded cost wise? It makes no sense, there's no real need to discourage people from getting too much education. And long term loans, are just as inflationary to issue to the economy - and when you collect the interest back long term, you're just causing a drag on economic expansion.
  - slg 7y ago
    I completely agree with you that this approach to education isn't ideal and that we collectively would be better off if the onus for funding education was shifted back to the general tax payer again. That said, if you have a system in which the education dollars are limits, like we currently do, the best approach in my opinion is to charge people based on their ability to pay.

davidw 7y ago

I guess that depends on the school. I think professors in 'regular' schools are pretty available to students in the US.

liability 7y ago
Yes, that's a good point. Different schools have different teaching/research balances and I would expect to find a difference there in the average attitudes of the professors.