4 ms·

Meaning is probably the single most subjective concept that exists. You can't tell someone else what is meaningful for them, which is what the OP is doing and

Meaning is probably the single most subjective concept that exists. You can't tell someone else what is meaningful for them, which is what the OP is doing and you are implying. I guarantee there are people who find WOW to be far more meaningful than building a career in the health field. That's the nature of humanity. We all find meaning in strange and unique ways.

javert 16y ago
The way we're using "meaning" in this discussion is improper, and I regret not pointing that out earlier. It's improper because the word is not (and cannot) be defined. I guarantee there are people who find WOW to be far more meaningful than building a career in the health field. I can't argue that because "meaningful" is not well-defined. However, I can make a related statement, as follows. Building a career in the real world is far more valuable to a person, as a human being, than building a "career" in WoW, because it allows a person to achieve real values in life--e.g. monetary wealth, respect from peers, self-sufficiency, and ultimately self-esteem and the genuine, pervasive kind of happiness that self-esteem makes possible. Wow does not allow one to achieve those values.
- klbarry 16y ago
  " monetary wealth, respect from peers, self-sufficiency, and ultimately self-esteem and the genuine, pervasive kind of happiness that self-esteem makes possible" Why are these things valuable? If we define valuable as worth a lot of money, obviously they are. If we define it as extremely useful or important, then that's just a judgement call again, no?
  - javert 16y ago
    You're making the point that in order to figure out what (if anything) is valuable, we need to have a standard of value, and you're absolutely right. Now, there are lots of potential standards of value. e.g. "immediate pleasure" (hedonism); what's good for others (altruism); etc. The proper standard of value is: what is good or bad for an individual's life, as a human being. So, that's how I'm defining "valuable" here. Why is that the proper standard of value? Well, any deviation from that standard is going to be destructive to life, whereas following it will sustain life. Living successfully is a prerequisite (and the primary component) of happiness (in the fullest sense of the word--i.e. a non-contradictory enjoyment of being alive and all that that entails). My statements here are not to be taken as standing on their own. There are lots of questions to ask. (A basic one would be: How can you claim to actually know anything, in the first place?.) I'm not going to try to present the full philosophical justification (i.e. present and validate an entire philosophical system), but it's out there if you look.

javert 16y ago

The way we're using "meaning" in this discussion is improper, and I regret not pointing that out earlier. It's improper because the word is not (and cannot) be defined. I guarantee there are people who find WOW to be far more meaningful than building a career in the health field. I can't argue that because "meaningful" is not well-defined. However, I can make a related statement, as follows. Building a career in the real world is far more valuable to a person, as a human being, than building a "career" in WoW, because it allows a person to achieve real values in life--e.g. monetary wealth, respect from peers, self-sufficiency, and ultimately self-esteem and the genuine, pervasive kind of happiness that self-esteem makes possible. Wow does not allow one to achieve those values.

klbarry 16y ago
" monetary wealth, respect from peers, self-sufficiency, and ultimately self-esteem and the genuine, pervasive kind of happiness that self-esteem makes possible" Why are these things valuable? If we define valuable as worth a lot of money, obviously they are. If we define it as extremely useful or important, then that's just a judgement call again, no?
- javert 16y ago
  You're making the point that in order to figure out what (if anything) is valuable, we need to have a standard of value, and you're absolutely right. Now, there are lots of potential standards of value. e.g. "immediate pleasure" (hedonism); what's good for others (altruism); etc. The proper standard of value is: what is good or bad for an individual's life, as a human being. So, that's how I'm defining "valuable" here. Why is that the proper standard of value? Well, any deviation from that standard is going to be destructive to life, whereas following it will sustain life. Living successfully is a prerequisite (and the primary component) of happiness (in the fullest sense of the word--i.e. a non-contradictory enjoyment of being alive and all that that entails). My statements here are not to be taken as standing on their own. There are lots of questions to ask. (A basic one would be: How can you claim to actually know anything, in the first place?.) I'm not going to try to present the full philosophical justification (i.e. present and validate an entire philosophical system), but it's out there if you look.