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> What does it mean for our society if a single company has control over what that computer can display? this is literally every major OS right now.... Mac, iO

> What does it mean for our society if a single company has control over what that computer can display? this is literally every major OS right now.... Mac, iOS, Android, Chromium, Windows.... > I think it's analogous to free speech. what? no it isn't. these are proprietary, private sector companies who fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders, not government entities.

felipelemos 7y ago
It's a bit of stretching saying that Windows and even macOS, and I'm obviously not counting Linux in that, have the same walled garden than iPhone.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> this is literally every major OS right now.... Mac, iOS, Android, Chromium, Windows.... No it's not! I can run whatever software I want on Windows, Mac, Android and Chromium. > these are proprietary, private sector companies who fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders, not government entities. I am not accusing Apple of literally breaking the first amendment. I do, however, think their actions have consequences for our society and democracy. Imagine if side-loading books onto a Kindle was impossible, and Amazon implemented an App Store-style review process for everything sold on the Kindle store. Would you consider that a threat to free speech? Well, consider what happened when someone made an iOS game about Apple factory workers in Foxconn: Apple killed it [1]. Now, it is absolutely Apple's prerogative to determine what is allowed on their storefront, just as any retailer can decide what to stock on its shelves. However, by completely blocking any form of side-loading, Apple is making decisions about what type of content their users are allowed to see on their devices. That's a problem if the iPhone is someone's primary computer, and perhaps their only computer. [1] https://kotaku.com/there-was-an-iphone-game-about-foxconn-until-apple-kill-5839820 https://kotaku.com/there-was-an-iphone-game-about-foxconn-un...
- ekc 7y ago
  > No it's not! I can run whatever software I want on Windows, Mac, Android and Chromium. Just as you can on Safari!
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Sure, and it's great that they provide that option, but it also severely limits the capabilities of what an app can do. I also don't think it's a coincidence that Apple has been dragging its feet on support for progressive web apps.
  - chongli 7y ago
    Just as you can on Safari! Web applications can't do peer to peer networking, period. Nor can they interact with arbitrary hardware devices you decide to connect.
icebraining 7y ago
The First Amendment of the US Constitution is restricted to the government. Free Speech is a wider concept than that.
- crankylinuxuser 7y ago
  Why do we chain ourselves to such a limiting construct? Companies; S,C, LLC. They did not exist, and by request they were willed into 'personhood' at the signing of a government pen. They were not required to approve the incorporation request. So, I ask this: Why do we not enforce incorporated entities to also abide by the Bill of Rights as being extensions of the government? They certainly weren't born, and there's no corporate death penalty. So it tells me they're an extension of government, as they were willed into being with their explicit consent.
  - solitus 7y ago
    I agree, these companies have a heavy influence on governments through lobbyists and campaign financing.
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    > Why do we not enforce incorporated entities to also abide by the Bill of Rights as being extensions of the government? because they are extensions of the private citizens that own them your extension is accomplished when government entities under the US Constitution are significant funders or owners of these entities
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    I don't want private companies to be beholden to the same standard of free speech as the government! Barns & Noble should be able to decide what types of books to put on their selves. Hacker News's moderators should be able to make decisions about what types of content lead to intellectual curiosity. And while I strongly believe all software platforms should allow sideloading, I also think Apple's curated, "safe" App Store is a great (optional) service for consumers who want it.

felipelemos 7y ago

It's a bit of stretching saying that Windows and even macOS, and I'm obviously not counting Linux in that, have the same walled garden than iPhone.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

> this is literally every major OS right now.... Mac, iOS, Android, Chromium, Windows.... No it's not! I can run whatever software I want on Windows, Mac, Android and Chromium. > these are proprietary, private sector companies who fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders, not government entities. I am not accusing Apple of literally breaking the first amendment. I do, however, think their actions have consequences for our society and democracy. Imagine if side-loading books onto a Kindle was impossible, and Amazon implemented an App Store-style review process for everything sold on the Kindle store. Would you consider that a threat to free speech? Well, consider what happened when someone made an iOS game about Apple factory workers in Foxconn: Apple killed it [1]. Now, it is absolutely Apple's prerogative to determine what is allowed on their storefront, just as any retailer can decide what to stock on its shelves. However, by completely blocking any form of side-loading, Apple is making decisions about what type of content their users are allowed to see on their devices. That's a problem if the iPhone is someone's primary computer, and perhaps their only computer. [1] https://kotaku.com/there-was-an-iphone-game-about-foxconn-until-apple-kill-5839820 https://kotaku.com/there-was-an-iphone-game-about-foxconn-un...

ekc 7y ago
> No it's not! I can run whatever software I want on Windows, Mac, Android and Chromium. Just as you can on Safari!
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  Sure, and it's great that they provide that option, but it also severely limits the capabilities of what an app can do. I also don't think it's a coincidence that Apple has been dragging its feet on support for progressive web apps.
- chongli 7y ago
  Just as you can on Safari! Web applications can't do peer to peer networking, period. Nor can they interact with arbitrary hardware devices you decide to connect.

icebraining 7y ago

The First Amendment of the US Constitution is restricted to the government. Free Speech is a wider concept than that.

crankylinuxuser 7y ago
Why do we chain ourselves to such a limiting construct? Companies; S,C, LLC. They did not exist, and by request they were willed into 'personhood' at the signing of a government pen. They were not required to approve the incorporation request. So, I ask this: Why do we not enforce incorporated entities to also abide by the Bill of Rights as being extensions of the government? They certainly weren't born, and there's no corporate death penalty. So it tells me they're an extension of government, as they were willed into being with their explicit consent.
- solitus 7y ago
  I agree, these companies have a heavy influence on governments through lobbyists and campaign financing.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  > Why do we not enforce incorporated entities to also abide by the Bill of Rights as being extensions of the government? because they are extensions of the private citizens that own them your extension is accomplished when government entities under the US Constitution are significant funders or owners of these entities
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  I don't want private companies to be beholden to the same standard of free speech as the government! Barns & Noble should be able to decide what types of books to put on their selves. Hacker News's moderators should be able to make decisions about what types of content lead to intellectual curiosity. And while I strongly believe all software platforms should allow sideloading, I also think Apple's curated, "safe" App Store is a great (optional) service for consumers who want it.