6 ms·

I am happy buying stuff from the iOS store. It's convenient, quick and easy. No objection as an end user.

alunchbox 7y ago
Your views don't change even after learning that most of your purchases that are to support developers are being skimmed by 30% ? (similar situation to Steam but at least their development tools are nearly bug free, and really help development) The problem here is that they also charge 100 or $50 just to start developing on their platform...
- scarface74 7y ago
  So did you buy software from retail when they were taking 60%? Do you buy music when the artist only gets pennies? Do you use Spotify where the artist gets even less? Do you realize that it costs thousands of dollars to develop for either the Playstation or Nintendo and you have to sign an NDA? Do you buy console games?
- _ph_ 7y ago
  There is no charge to start development for iOS. The tools are available for any Mac owner.
  - fetus8 7y ago
    You're right, you can download and get started for free. But it costs $99/year to distribute on the App Store...
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    Sorry, this time I really don't get the downvotes. Did I say anything incorrect? If so, please correct me. If not, why am I downvoted?
    - auggierose 7y ago
      Because there are many on here who consider paying $100 for being able to distribute on the App Store outrageous. They don't realise that just putting in 1 hour of your development time to create something usually costs more than that.
      - _ph_ 7y ago
        The point is, you don't need to pay to develop an app, you only need to pay for submitting it into the app store. So perhaps I should have added a disclaimer to my statement and not just limit it to precisely what I expressed. I did not intend to make a statement about the submission fee.
- inscionent 7y ago
  skim: informal, steal or embezzle This isn't skimming. This is a business agreement. The developer should understand the business agreements they enter into.
- gwd 7y ago
  > Your views don't change even after learning that most of your purchases that are to support developers are being skimmed by 30% ? Why would that matter in the slightest? If I'm a developer and I figure I need to make $4 off every sale, I just price my app at $6. It will make apps cost more to the end-user, of course; the end-user can then decide whether they want to pay in cash to Apple (via app purchases) to develop iOS, or pay in lack of privacy to Google to develop Android. What makes me angry about this sort of post is that _right now I have a choice_ -- if I want to pay with money instead of privacy, I choose Apple; if I want to pay with privacy instead of money, I choose Android. Articles like this are clearly meant to _take away my choice_, leaving "pay by privacy" the only option available to me.
crazygringo 7y ago
Wouldn't you be happier if prices were 25% lower? Maybe you're not objecting because you don't know how much better the alternative could be?
- ch_sm 7y ago
  Prices on the iOS AppStore are already almost unsustainably low.
- hprotagonist 7y ago
  if the alternative is a malware-infested google play store where every second app phones home 900 times a day or whatever, i think i'll pass. I'm making my iOS walled garden choice with open eyes. I'm happy to sideload apps if they're worth it; so far the only one i found that I cared enough about to do this with was Blink, and i wound up buying it on the app store afterwards so the developers could get their cut.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  I’m not objecting because I know the alternative of not using a walled garden (Windows and Android) and I have wasted too much of my life dealing with its issues. I’d pay 25% more if I had to because the time it has saved me and my family is priceless.
- magashna 7y ago
  The user will never get the benefit of savings up the chain. That's not going to happen so don't act like it's an option.
trilila 7y ago
Not to mention it prevents piracy and it is significantly more safe than downloading off of random websites.
FerretFred 7y ago
I used to be happy, but now, not so much due to the increasing trend of subscriptions. Yes I know developers have a living to make, but when you end up potentially paying $50 a year for an SSH client it no longer works for me. Why not charge a realistic one-time fee for an app and then I'll gladly pay.
- moksly 7y ago
  Does this have anything to do with Apple and their walled garden though? To me it sounds more like a business opportunity to make a SSH client and sell it at a realistic one-time fee to people like you (and me by the way) who are sick of subscriptions. But can’t that be done within he current ecosystem?
  - ubercow13 7y ago
    One issue is that apps seem to require much more ongoing maintenance just to continue working on iOS. Most of the Windows software I bought 10 or even 20 years ago would probably still work on my current PC, but apps I bought only a few years ago are no longer working for me or have become unavailable on the app store because the developer stopped putting in continuous effort to keep up with iOS.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
Great! Let the iOS App Store compete in the free market on its own merits. I suspect it will do quite well—it's installed on all phones by default, and consumers trust it (for good reason). The App Store should not be the only way to get software on an iPhone, sans literally hacking the device.
- jordanpg 7y ago
  They are competing in the free market. Users are free to not use their software and there are many other choices. You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    > You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete. I absolutely am! There is such a thing as unfair competition. As I see it, Apple is using their existing dominance to create barriers to entry for new players. I'm free to avoid Amazon too, but as increasing amounts of society move to Amazon as the de-facto web store for everything, how reasonable is it to fully boycott them? Sure it's possible, but it would be a substantial life commitment.
    - PascLeRasc 7y ago
      Many of us are boycotting Amazon by accident, I don't think it's a substantial life commitment. What have you wanted to buy from Amazon that you can't find elsewhere?
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      Apple is using their existing dominance to create barriers to entry for new players. The number one phone manufacturer is Samsung, not Apple. Huawei is number two.
    - IOT_Apprentice 7y ago
      Both Samsung and Huawei build more phones than Apple does. There are more Android phones than iOS phones, so exactly who has market dominance? No one is forcing you to buy Apple products. I'll take a more secure and privacy focused platform.
CaptainMarvel 7y ago
I’m unhappy because Apple has prevented me from using my phone how I want to. I recognised Spotify’s published complaints against Apple 2-3 years before they spoke out. I vowed to never use or buy Apple Music, Apple Watch, HomePod, and even a new iPhone because Apple were degrading my experience with Spotify compared to their own services. They deliberately created an unfair playing field on their platform in order to make more money. This problem is the same. How can Spotify compete with Apple in a completely separate industry like Music when Apple takes a 15-30% cut? How can Netflix compete? Apple is using their position to expand into other areas of business. This is bad for competition, and what is bad for competition is generally bad for people. Sure, Apple has a great, safe experience with the store and in-app purchases, but that is no reason to prevent other flows. Why can I not decide for myself whether to use an App’s “alternative” payment system?
- scarface74 7y ago
  Apple doesn’t take a cut of a Spotify subscription. Spotify hasn’t allowed in app subscriptions for years. Can I sideload music and integrate it with my Spotify library like I can with Apple Music? Can an artist get included in the Spotify library without giving them a 30% cut? Apple is introducing cellular streaming in WatchOS 5 and music intents with Siri in iOS 13. This problem is the same. How can Spotify compete with Apple in a completely separate industry like Music when Apple takes a 15-30% cut? How can Netflix compete? Netflix also stopped allowing in app subscriptions recently.
  - CaptainMarvel 7y ago
    I feel like you missed the point. The choices are: give Apple 30%, or do not even so much as hint to the users that they can subscribe on the website. Either option cripples the service compared to Apple’s service.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      No, the parent poster said that Spotify and Netflix had to give Apple a cut. Not only do they not have to, they don’t anymore. The parent post stated something that was factually incorrect. Seeing that Spotify still grew steadily after not allowing in app subscriptions. It doesn’t seem like their growth was harmed.
post_break 7y ago
Imagine if they had a refund process like Android. I'd buy way more stuff. But because I can't try an app and make sure it's not fake or advertises it does x but really only does y I'm scrooge mcduck. I've bought way more apps on Android because of this.
- a-wu 7y ago
  There is a refund process[0]. I generally don’t play games on my phone or use non-essential apps so I haven’t used it often but it has always worked for me. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084
- dangus 7y ago
  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084 Not as instant/universally approved as Google's system but there is a process.
  - post_break 7y ago
    That's clunky and annoying. Just being able to delete the app within 2 hours is what I'd like.
Carpetsmoker 7y ago
Apple doesn't allow me to buy anything on my iPhone, as I got my phone in New Zealand, have a British Revolut CC card and phone number, then was in the Netherlands for a while, and am now living in Ireland. I had to switch the region to Netherlands to install the (free) RyanAir app (why?!) which was rather annoying since then it started offering Dutch suggestions for stuff (which I don't want). I can't add my UK CC to my account though as it's not a Dutch one, so I switched to the UK region, and then it errors out with "your account is not valid for use in the UK store. You must switch to the Dutch store before purchasing". Why ...? I don't know. I had a similar problem with the RyanAir app: I switched to Dutch store and then got "your account is not valid for use in the Dutch store. You must switch to the New Zealand store". I forgot how I fixed that. The reason they have all these restrictions is presumably so I can't use a cheaper store to but stuff. While this isn't the sort of "broken" that the article talks about, effectively, the iOS store is broken for me. That's always the problems with these kind of restrictions: they also block legitimate use for people who don't fall neatly in your expected audience. I had similar problems ordering a new charger for my ThinkPad in NZ, as I had to use a NZ-based CC to get it delivered to a NZ address :-/ I find this kind of bullshit a super annoying way to waste my time. I never had these kind of problems with the Android store, and as soon as there's an updated Android phone that's not larger than some TVs I've owned (iPhone SE is good size) I'm getting an Android phone again (not that I have a particular love for Android, it's just "less bad").
- reaperducer 7y ago
  I can't add my UK CC to my account though as it's not a Dutch one, so I switched to the UK region, and then it errors out with "your account is not valid for use in the UK store. You must switch to the Dutch store before purchasing". Why ...? I don't know. Because content licensed for a particular geographic region. I mix regions, too. It's not rocket surgery. You just have multiple iTunes accounts, which are as easy to create as buying an iTunes card while you're in that country and loading it into a new account. I have US, UK, French, and Japanese iTunes accounts, and have no problems making purchases from any of them because each has an independent country-specific payment source. You can have up to five on a device. It's something Apple has supported from the beginning.

Your views don't change even after learning that most of your purchases that are to support developers are being skimmed by 30% ? (similar situation to Steam but at least their development tools are nearly bug free, and really help development) The problem here is that they also charge 100 or $50 just to start developing on their platform...

scarface74 7y ago
So did you buy software from retail when they were taking 60%? Do you buy music when the artist only gets pennies? Do you use Spotify where the artist gets even less? Do you realize that it costs thousands of dollars to develop for either the Playstation or Nintendo and you have to sign an NDA? Do you buy console games?
_ph_ 7y ago
There is no charge to start development for iOS. The tools are available for any Mac owner.
- fetus8 7y ago
  You're right, you can download and get started for free. But it costs $99/year to distribute on the App Store...
- _ph_ 7y ago
  Sorry, this time I really don't get the downvotes. Did I say anything incorrect? If so, please correct me. If not, why am I downvoted?
  - auggierose 7y ago
    Because there are many on here who consider paying $100 for being able to distribute on the App Store outrageous. They don't realise that just putting in 1 hour of your development time to create something usually costs more than that.
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      The point is, you don't need to pay to develop an app, you only need to pay for submitting it into the app store. So perhaps I should have added a disclaimer to my statement and not just limit it to precisely what I expressed. I did not intend to make a statement about the submission fee.
inscionent 7y ago
skim: informal, steal or embezzle This isn't skimming. This is a business agreement. The developer should understand the business agreements they enter into.
gwd 7y ago
> Your views don't change even after learning that most of your purchases that are to support developers are being skimmed by 30% ? Why would that matter in the slightest? If I'm a developer and I figure I need to make $4 off every sale, I just price my app at $6. It will make apps cost more to the end-user, of course; the end-user can then decide whether they want to pay in cash to Apple (via app purchases) to develop iOS, or pay in lack of privacy to Google to develop Android. What makes me angry about this sort of post is that _right now I have a choice_ -- if I want to pay with money instead of privacy, I choose Apple; if I want to pay with privacy instead of money, I choose Android. Articles like this are clearly meant to _take away my choice_, leaving "pay by privacy" the only option available to me.

crazygringo 7y ago

Wouldn't you be happier if prices were 25% lower? Maybe you're not objecting because you don't know how much better the alternative could be?

ch_sm 7y ago
Prices on the iOS AppStore are already almost unsustainably low.
hprotagonist 7y ago
if the alternative is a malware-infested google play store where every second app phones home 900 times a day or whatever, i think i'll pass. I'm making my iOS walled garden choice with open eyes. I'm happy to sideload apps if they're worth it; so far the only one i found that I cared enough about to do this with was Blink, and i wound up buying it on the app store afterwards so the developers could get their cut.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
I’m not objecting because I know the alternative of not using a walled garden (Windows and Android) and I have wasted too much of my life dealing with its issues. I’d pay 25% more if I had to because the time it has saved me and my family is priceless.
magashna 7y ago
The user will never get the benefit of savings up the chain. That's not going to happen so don't act like it's an option.

trilila 7y ago

Not to mention it prevents piracy and it is significantly more safe than downloading off of random websites.

FerretFred 7y ago

I used to be happy, but now, not so much due to the increasing trend of subscriptions. Yes I know developers have a living to make, but when you end up potentially paying $50 a year for an SSH client it no longer works for me. Why not charge a realistic one-time fee for an app and then I'll gladly pay.

moksly 7y ago
Does this have anything to do with Apple and their walled garden though? To me it sounds more like a business opportunity to make a SSH client and sell it at a realistic one-time fee to people like you (and me by the way) who are sick of subscriptions. But can’t that be done within he current ecosystem?
- ubercow13 7y ago
  One issue is that apps seem to require much more ongoing maintenance just to continue working on iOS. Most of the Windows software I bought 10 or even 20 years ago would probably still work on my current PC, but apps I bought only a few years ago are no longer working for me or have become unavailable on the app store because the developer stopped putting in continuous effort to keep up with iOS.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

Great! Let the iOS App Store compete in the free market on its own merits. I suspect it will do quite well—it's installed on all phones by default, and consumers trust it (for good reason). The App Store should not be the only way to get software on an iPhone, sans literally hacking the device.

jordanpg 7y ago
They are competing in the free market. Users are free to not use their software and there are many other choices. You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  > You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete. I absolutely am! There is such a thing as unfair competition. As I see it, Apple is using their existing dominance to create barriers to entry for new players. I'm free to avoid Amazon too, but as increasing amounts of society move to Amazon as the de-facto web store for everything, how reasonable is it to fully boycott them? Sure it's possible, but it would be a substantial life commitment.
  - PascLeRasc 7y ago
    Many of us are boycotting Amazon by accident, I don't think it's a substantial life commitment. What have you wanted to buy from Amazon that you can't find elsewhere?
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Apple is using their existing dominance to create barriers to entry for new players. The number one phone manufacturer is Samsung, not Apple. Huawei is number two.
  - IOT_Apprentice 7y ago
    Both Samsung and Huawei build more phones than Apple does. There are more Android phones than iOS phones, so exactly who has market dominance? No one is forcing you to buy Apple products. I'll take a more secure and privacy focused platform.

CaptainMarvel 7y ago

I’m unhappy because Apple has prevented me from using my phone how I want to. I recognised Spotify’s published complaints against Apple 2-3 years before they spoke out. I vowed to never use or buy Apple Music, Apple Watch, HomePod, and even a new iPhone because Apple were degrading my experience with Spotify compared to their own services. They deliberately created an unfair playing field on their platform in order to make more money. This problem is the same. How can Spotify compete with Apple in a completely separate industry like Music when Apple takes a 15-30% cut? How can Netflix compete? Apple is using their position to expand into other areas of business. This is bad for competition, and what is bad for competition is generally bad for people. Sure, Apple has a great, safe experience with the store and in-app purchases, but that is no reason to prevent other flows. Why can I not decide for myself whether to use an App’s “alternative” payment system?

scarface74 7y ago
Apple doesn’t take a cut of a Spotify subscription. Spotify hasn’t allowed in app subscriptions for years. Can I sideload music and integrate it with my Spotify library like I can with Apple Music? Can an artist get included in the Spotify library without giving them a 30% cut? Apple is introducing cellular streaming in WatchOS 5 and music intents with Siri in iOS 13. This problem is the same. How can Spotify compete with Apple in a completely separate industry like Music when Apple takes a 15-30% cut? How can Netflix compete? Netflix also stopped allowing in app subscriptions recently.
- CaptainMarvel 7y ago
  I feel like you missed the point. The choices are: give Apple 30%, or do not even so much as hint to the users that they can subscribe on the website. Either option cripples the service compared to Apple’s service.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    No, the parent poster said that Spotify and Netflix had to give Apple a cut. Not only do they not have to, they don’t anymore. The parent post stated something that was factually incorrect. Seeing that Spotify still grew steadily after not allowing in app subscriptions. It doesn’t seem like their growth was harmed.

post_break 7y ago

Imagine if they had a refund process like Android. I'd buy way more stuff. But because I can't try an app and make sure it's not fake or advertises it does x but really only does y I'm scrooge mcduck. I've bought way more apps on Android because of this.

a-wu 7y ago
There is a refund process[0]. I generally don’t play games on my phone or use non-essential apps so I haven’t used it often but it has always worked for me. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084
dangus 7y ago
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084 Not as instant/universally approved as Google's system but there is a process.
- post_break 7y ago
  That's clunky and annoying. Just being able to delete the app within 2 hours is what I'd like.

Carpetsmoker 7y ago

Apple doesn't allow me to buy anything on my iPhone, as I got my phone in New Zealand, have a British Revolut CC card and phone number, then was in the Netherlands for a while, and am now living in Ireland. I had to switch the region to Netherlands to install the (free) RyanAir app (why?!) which was rather annoying since then it started offering Dutch suggestions for stuff (which I don't want). I can't add my UK CC to my account though as it's not a Dutch one, so I switched to the UK region, and then it errors out with "your account is not valid for use in the UK store. You must switch to the Dutch store before purchasing". Why ...? I don't know. I had a similar problem with the RyanAir app: I switched to Dutch store and then got "your account is not valid for use in the Dutch store. You must switch to the New Zealand store". I forgot how I fixed that. The reason they have all these restrictions is presumably so I can't use a cheaper store to but stuff. While this isn't the sort of "broken" that the article talks about, effectively, the iOS store is broken for me. That's always the problems with these kind of restrictions: they also block legitimate use for people who don't fall neatly in your expected audience. I had similar problems ordering a new charger for my ThinkPad in NZ, as I had to use a NZ-based CC to get it delivered to a NZ address :-/ I find this kind of bullshit a super annoying way to waste my time. I never had these kind of problems with the Android store, and as soon as there's an updated Android phone that's not larger than some TVs I've owned (iPhone SE is good size) I'm getting an Android phone again (not that I have a particular love for Android, it's just "less bad").

reaperducer 7y ago
I can't add my UK CC to my account though as it's not a Dutch one, so I switched to the UK region, and then it errors out with "your account is not valid for use in the UK store. You must switch to the Dutch store before purchasing". Why ...? I don't know. Because content licensed for a particular geographic region. I mix regions, too. It's not rocket surgery. You just have multiple iTunes accounts, which are as easy to create as buying an iTunes card while you're in that country and loading it into a new account. I have US, UK, French, and Japanese iTunes accounts, and have no problems making purchases from any of them because each has an independent country-specific payment source. You can have up to five on a device. It's something Apple has supported from the beginning.