4 ms·

I know people in their 30s who have suicide as their ultimate end of life plan. They don't have retirement savings beyond a 401k, they live paycheck to paychec

I know people in their 30s who have suicide as their ultimate end of life plan. They don't have retirement savings beyond a 401k, they live paycheck to paycheck, retirement and pensions aren't an option for them so they know they'll work until they are too old or sick. They're hoping that assisted suicide will be legal by the time they are overwhelmed by medical expenses or pain, but all them are willing to put a gun in their mouths if it comes to that.

_eht 7y ago
I’ve seen this Futurama episode...
mktmkr 7y ago
Curious what you think is deficient about only having a 401k (and, presumably, Social Security) as a retirement plan. Isn't this the entire sales pitch of Vanguard, that you put a couple of bucks in your 401k every week and then you retire? I'm not personally all-in on IRAs, but it seems like an accepted strategy.
- e40 7y ago
  Presumably their 401k's are not that beefy. That's the way I read the comment.
- yardie 7y ago
  There is an entire class of people who are living paycheck to paycheck. And have a lifetime of part-time, minimum wage work. How much do you think they have in savings and 401k?
  - autoexec 7y ago
    > There is an entire class of people who are living paycheck to paycheck. Like over 75% of all full time workers in America. If you aren't living paycheck to paycheck you're much better off than the vast majority of the nation.
- autoexec 7y ago
  I don't think any of them are so sure their 401ks and Social security will be reliable. People who were depending on their 401ks in 2008 were horrified while their savings just started disappearing. Social Security was never intended to be enough for people to live off of and my entire life people have been concerned about how/if it can continue into the future. A lot of Republicans would love to see the Social security program ended entirely and these days who knows if those folks will end up in a position where they can make that happen.
  - ryandrake 7y ago
    I think whether defined-contribution retirement is a successful experiment is yet to be determined. I’m in my 40s and everyone I have opened up to about finances and who have reciprocated have admitted to having savings that are totally inadequate, by one or two orders of magnitude. And these are people in tech, better off than average. Few people I know expect to be able to retire and keep their standard of living. The median American has around $10k in savings and 30% of us have less than $1000. The median savings for people of retirement age is a mere $100k, which isn’t enough to live on for more than a few years in most cities. I’m not sure how self-funded retirement is really expected to work. All of the people I know who are comfortably retired are on old school defined-benefit pensions. AFAIK 401k-dependent retirees have not yet hit critical mass, so we haven’t seen the financial catastrophe that may be coming.
- redis_mlc 7y ago
  The 401k was originally created to supplement employer pensions. The author was horrified when he found out that employers were then dropping their plans and moving employees to 401k-only. That should tell you all you need to know.
MrNobody_01 7y ago
People in their 20s as well. There are end of life issues beyond languishing in retirement (or a lack thereof) and loneliness. No matter how much money you save or how well your physical body holds up, eventually your mind will dim. If you're lucky you'll just slowly fade away in pain that's really only obvious to those close to you, if you're not you'll go the way of the late Sir Michael Atiyah. At least for me, spending time with people in the final stages of their lives has made me believe that euthanasia may very well be the more humane way to pass. The thing that was the actual person is very often long gone by the time their body ceases operations.
- davidjnelson 7y ago
  I saw this with dementia patients when visiting a relative in a hospice home. Really sad.
- DanBC 7y ago
  If you're lucky you get people to take you to the beach, or other activities so you can live what little life you have left with joy, rather than sitting in the dark waiting to die. https://twitter.com/Drmarkredmond/status/1155399943831597056?s=20 https://twitter.com/Drmarkredmond/status/1155399943831597056... https://twitter.com/Glos_CareNHS/status/1079757130431893504?s=20 https://twitter.com/Glos_CareNHS/status/1079757130431893504?...
GuiA 7y ago
I am in the last few months of my 20s, and I would say that I have suicide as my ultimate end of life plan. It's not a financial thing - I am generally quite frugal, have built up decent investments, and don't think I'll ever have to worry about food/shelter/etc. I am citizen of a country that provides free healthcare, so that's one worry off my mind as well. But the past year or so, I have seen my 93 year old grandmother slowly lose all of her mental capacities and with it any trace of a personality. Her life now is spent in a barely conscious/awake state, and she can't even recognize those who gave her the most joy when she was younger. Who would want 5, 10, 15 years of this? Of course I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep after a long day filled with things I loved doing, but that's not the case for many. Medical science has advanced to the point where we can take care of the human body way beyond what the human mind can follow. In the years after my grandfather's death, while my grandmother's mental decline was beginning and she slowly became aware of it, she said that her only wish was that God would take her then. She lives in a country where legal assisted suicide is not a thing. If I ever find myself in a similar situation (something not unlikely - people in my Mediterranean family tend to live well into their 80s and 90s), I hope I have the clarity of mind to end it on my own terms.
yardie 7y ago
I’m at the upper end of my 30s but I half jokingly tell my friends that when I’m too old I’m going to take the sailboat out for one last sail...and just not come back.
- davidjnelson 7y ago
  Death is sad, but if you have some terminal thing and a month to live it’s kind of a romantic way to leave. But idk, people get terminal diagnoses and live happily in good health for years afterwards too. I suppose what most people want is a peaceful exit, like no pain and while sleeping or something.
  - autoexec 7y ago
    I've pretty much told my family my primary issue is happiness and comfort. If I'm even at the point where I'm not able to enjoy my life any longer and there's little chance of that improving they are free to pull the plug on me. I don't want to burden them with medical expenses or draw out pain and suffering needlessly.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
> but all them are willing to put a gun in their mouths if it comes to that. An easy thing to say when it is still some distant future event.
- MrNobody_01 7y ago
  I'm not sure if there's a less distasteful way to say this, but I think that the statistics in the article we're commenting on indicate that a good number of people will indeed follow through with that.
moosey 7y ago
I am 40 and I do not currently plan on retiring. I still put money into retirement for my spouse, but as for me, I think that when I lose the ability or simply the willpower for continued productivity that there is simply no point anymore. I refuse to be a pressure on the earth's ecology if I cannot aid in the development of the world in the interest of posterity and their well being. My last huzzah will hopefully be meaningful use of my corpse for scientific purposes, or even my live body should it be allowed at that point.

_eht 7y ago

I’ve seen this Futurama episode...

mktmkr 7y ago

Curious what you think is deficient about only having a 401k (and, presumably, Social Security) as a retirement plan. Isn't this the entire sales pitch of Vanguard, that you put a couple of bucks in your 401k every week and then you retire? I'm not personally all-in on IRAs, but it seems like an accepted strategy.

e40 7y ago
Presumably their 401k's are not that beefy. That's the way I read the comment.
yardie 7y ago
There is an entire class of people who are living paycheck to paycheck. And have a lifetime of part-time, minimum wage work. How much do you think they have in savings and 401k?
- autoexec 7y ago
  > There is an entire class of people who are living paycheck to paycheck. Like over 75% of all full time workers in America. If you aren't living paycheck to paycheck you're much better off than the vast majority of the nation.
autoexec 7y ago
I don't think any of them are so sure their 401ks and Social security will be reliable. People who were depending on their 401ks in 2008 were horrified while their savings just started disappearing. Social Security was never intended to be enough for people to live off of and my entire life people have been concerned about how/if it can continue into the future. A lot of Republicans would love to see the Social security program ended entirely and these days who knows if those folks will end up in a position where they can make that happen.
- ryandrake 7y ago
  I think whether defined-contribution retirement is a successful experiment is yet to be determined. I’m in my 40s and everyone I have opened up to about finances and who have reciprocated have admitted to having savings that are totally inadequate, by one or two orders of magnitude. And these are people in tech, better off than average. Few people I know expect to be able to retire and keep their standard of living. The median American has around $10k in savings and 30% of us have less than $1000. The median savings for people of retirement age is a mere $100k, which isn’t enough to live on for more than a few years in most cities. I’m not sure how self-funded retirement is really expected to work. All of the people I know who are comfortably retired are on old school defined-benefit pensions. AFAIK 401k-dependent retirees have not yet hit critical mass, so we haven’t seen the financial catastrophe that may be coming.
redis_mlc 7y ago
The 401k was originally created to supplement employer pensions. The author was horrified when he found out that employers were then dropping their plans and moving employees to 401k-only. That should tell you all you need to know.

MrNobody_01 7y ago

People in their 20s as well. There are end of life issues beyond languishing in retirement (or a lack thereof) and loneliness. No matter how much money you save or how well your physical body holds up, eventually your mind will dim. If you're lucky you'll just slowly fade away in pain that's really only obvious to those close to you, if you're not you'll go the way of the late Sir Michael Atiyah. At least for me, spending time with people in the final stages of their lives has made me believe that euthanasia may very well be the more humane way to pass. The thing that was the actual person is very often long gone by the time their body ceases operations.

davidjnelson 7y ago
I saw this with dementia patients when visiting a relative in a hospice home. Really sad.
DanBC 7y ago
If you're lucky you get people to take you to the beach, or other activities so you can live what little life you have left with joy, rather than sitting in the dark waiting to die. https://twitter.com/Drmarkredmond/status/1155399943831597056?s=20 https://twitter.com/Drmarkredmond/status/1155399943831597056... https://twitter.com/Glos_CareNHS/status/1079757130431893504?s=20 https://twitter.com/Glos_CareNHS/status/1079757130431893504?...

GuiA 7y ago

I am in the last few months of my 20s, and I would say that I have suicide as my ultimate end of life plan. It's not a financial thing - I am generally quite frugal, have built up decent investments, and don't think I'll ever have to worry about food/shelter/etc. I am citizen of a country that provides free healthcare, so that's one worry off my mind as well. But the past year or so, I have seen my 93 year old grandmother slowly lose all of her mental capacities and with it any trace of a personality. Her life now is spent in a barely conscious/awake state, and she can't even recognize those who gave her the most joy when she was younger. Who would want 5, 10, 15 years of this? Of course I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep after a long day filled with things I loved doing, but that's not the case for many. Medical science has advanced to the point where we can take care of the human body way beyond what the human mind can follow. In the years after my grandfather's death, while my grandmother's mental decline was beginning and she slowly became aware of it, she said that her only wish was that God would take her then. She lives in a country where legal assisted suicide is not a thing. If I ever find myself in a similar situation (something not unlikely - people in my Mediterranean family tend to live well into their 80s and 90s), I hope I have the clarity of mind to end it on my own terms.

yardie 7y ago

I’m at the upper end of my 30s but I half jokingly tell my friends that when I’m too old I’m going to take the sailboat out for one last sail...and just not come back.

davidjnelson 7y ago
Death is sad, but if you have some terminal thing and a month to live it’s kind of a romantic way to leave. But idk, people get terminal diagnoses and live happily in good health for years afterwards too. I suppose what most people want is a peaceful exit, like no pain and while sleeping or something.
- autoexec 7y ago
  I've pretty much told my family my primary issue is happiness and comfort. If I'm even at the point where I'm not able to enjoy my life any longer and there's little chance of that improving they are free to pull the plug on me. I don't want to burden them with medical expenses or draw out pain and suffering needlessly.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago

> but all them are willing to put a gun in their mouths if it comes to that. An easy thing to say when it is still some distant future event.

MrNobody_01 7y ago
I'm not sure if there's a less distasteful way to say this, but I think that the statistics in the article we're commenting on indicate that a good number of people will indeed follow through with that.

moosey 7y ago

I am 40 and I do not currently plan on retiring. I still put money into retirement for my spouse, but as for me, I think that when I lose the ability or simply the willpower for continued productivity that there is simply no point anymore. I refuse to be a pressure on the earth's ecology if I cannot aid in the development of the world in the interest of posterity and their well being. My last huzzah will hopefully be meaningful use of my corpse for scientific purposes, or even my live body should it be allowed at that point.