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This is a issue that many churches in America are uniquely positioned to help with. They often have busses, an army of people willing to volunteer, and wide ope

This is a issue that many churches in America are uniquely positioned to help with. They often have busses, an army of people willing to volunteer, and wide open spaces totally unused on weekdays. But church leadership would rather spend their resources waging a war against people’s sexual choices and getting involved in political positions. It’s sad to see religious resources so widely unused to help those in society in this time of need.

nikofeyn 7y ago
or abusing their tax exempt status.
dondawest 7y ago
I think church leadership is helping with the issue of senior citizen loneliness, for those senior citizens who are willing to become bigots, which is a lot of them: Don’t you think that the church-led wars against people’s sexual choices are designed bring fighters on both sides closer together?
- mistermann 7y ago
  > for those senior citizens who are willing to become bigots, which is a lot of them I wonder if you or the grandparent happen to know of some convincing evidence of this that I'm not aware of? I often wonder when I read claims like this if they are fact-based, and to what degree (usually never mentioned), or if they might instead be examples of the propogation of memes, similar to those related to race.
calvinmorrison 7y ago
spew generalisations elsewhere. Churches do work with older adults. Church communities give older adults a way to connect with other people, especially for those who are widowed, or don't have families. For me personally, I have been able to connect to an older generation that I don't have in my family and those are relationships that I treasure. It seems to me that these types of connections are EXACTLY what avoids loneliness and isolation. Churches are a big family, especially for those who are needy and infirmed. Be it going to deliver food to someone who cannot get out, or making sure to call them every week and check in, or picking them up and helping them get to the decons picnic, i think this is just yet another internet athiest with a sharp tongue who should probably sit down and shut up. maybe go to church and see what goes on there. Did you even read the artice?
- barking 7y ago
  I tend to agree with you and I'm not a churchgoer. Roy Hattersley an atheist former English politician wrote about the relief of Hurricane Katrina The Salvation Army has been given a special status as provider-in-chief of American disaster relief. But its work is being augmented by all sorts of other groups. Almost all of them have a religious origin and character. Notable by their absence are teams from rationalist societies, free thinkers' clubs and atheists' associations - the sort of people who not only scoff at religion's intellectual absurdity but also regard it as a positive force for evil. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/12/religion.uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/12/religion.uk
  - Baeocystin 7y ago
    That's an old article. Take a look at current Kiva stats, for example: https://www.kiva.org/teams?queryString=%28A%2B%29+Atheists%2C+Agnostics%2C+Skeptics%2C+Freethinkers%2C+Secular+Humanists+and+the+Non-Religious&search=&category=all&membershipType=all&sortBy=overallLoanedAmount https://www.kiva.org/teams?queryString=%28A%2B%29+Atheists%2... The Atheist team is one of the top donors. There has been a significant surge in secular charity work over the past decade.
- phamjamstudio 7y ago
  For a long time my church community (mostly in their 20's-40's w/ some folks 60+) frequently worked w/ our local volunteer organizations that specifically reach out to the elderly, disabled, impoverished, etc. This included yard work, resume/career support, counseling, making care packages and so on I posted elsewhere that my first date with my now wife was volunteering at a hospice care center to provide some company to an elderly lady; she ended up dying before our eyes within a few hours. We spent another hour comforting her husband. Sidebar - sometimes it makes me sad to see people stereotype people so easily online. Kind of feels like I have to carry the weight of and associated judgment of all those who did bad things in God's name or whatever. This is probably how good police officer, teachers, oft criticized good public servants feel. Oh well, we all do what we can do. Thanks to all who continue to serve.
nostromo 7y ago
I'm an atheist but even I can see that this is an outdated view of churches in at least some of America. It's almost a little strange from my perspective how many churches are now almost secular in nature. Yes, they talk about god, good and evil, and read scripture. But it's much less prescriptive than it used to be and almost sounds like a pep-talk about being a good person, good spouse, and a good parent. Obviously this is from the rare interactions I have with churches -- usually in support of extended family.
mcgrath_sh 7y ago
I agree that Churches are in a position to help, but there are lots of obstacles to overcome. Church attendance is shrinking. Older Churches cost a lot of money to maintain, and even more modern Churches still are not free to operate. In the Diocese of Pittsburgh, donations to parishes have shrunk by 20-30% since the AG report came out (rightfully so). Outreach services depend on volunteers (and to a lesser degree, money). There are a lot of Parishes where young people are increasingly hands-off/un-involved. If you don’t have young people, your volunteer pool to provide outreach services continues to get smaller. Add in Parishes merging and your Church building closing, people feel less invested in the “community” of their Church. My mom does volunteer to spend time with people in nursing homes via the local Parish, but a once a week visitor isn’t much. Many of the people tell her that their kids rarely visit (or are too far away to visit) and their friends are also not mobile or have passed away. Even if the Parish had a mountain of volunteers, to visit everyone in even one 90 person home 3 times a week for an hour means 270 hours. That is a part time job for 10 people and that is only one small nursing home!
xamuel 7y ago
War against people's sexual choices? Like, with bombs and guns, or a figurative war? It's interesting to look at Jesus's actions in the area. A mob brought him a woman caught cheating on her husband. Asking, should she be put to death? They wanted to trap Jesus: if he said "Yes", he would violate Roman law, if he said "No", he would violate Jewish law. Jesus said, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her." (John 8:7). After that disbursed the mob, Jesus told the woman: "Now go and sin no more." There's nothing harder to convince a man of than the fact that he's a sinner. And yet, when I finally realized that fact and asked Jesus for forgiveness, it was more liberating than anything else in this world, more liberating than I could ever have possibly imagined. When you experience something like that, you realize: the kingdom of heaven is near.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  "War against people's sexual choices? Like, with bombs and guns, or a figurative war?" I guess it depends on what you define conversion therapy and other 'bible camp' type activities.
  - xamuel 7y ago
    Pretty sure that's a vanishingly small minority of churches. BTW, did you know Jesus provided us a protocol for correcting such misguided churchmembers? You can read about it in Matthew 18:15-17. You should accept Christ as Lord and Savior and then apply this protocol against the offending church-leaders. If they refuse to listen to you, Jesus himself sanctions you treating them as outcasts!
    - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
      The sentiment against LGBTQ people is not small at all, which is why I included 'and other bible camp activities'. Just because there is a religious tenent for it doesn't mean that religion is practicing that. Catholic institutions regularly commit systematic oppression of minority demographics, most notably by depriving women of necessary healthcare and medication. Protestant institutions in many places drive systems of oppression and ostracizing of vulnerable groups- victims of domestic violence, removing agency from women, labeling LGBTQ identities as morally wrong, etc.
mymythisisthis 7y ago
You can't reform churches. There beliefs are false, and they refuse to accept that.
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads into religious flamewar, the last thing we want here. Your comment would have been fine without the second paragraph.
tathougies 7y ago
Well I belong to the supposedly sexually obsessed catholic church and our relatively small catholic parish mostly does poor ministries, and elder visits due to the local community needs. I dont think its an outdated view at all... The church provides disproportionate amounts of companionship even for non catholics

nikofeyn 7y ago

or abusing their tax exempt status.

dondawest 7y ago

I think church leadership is helping with the issue of senior citizen loneliness, for those senior citizens who are willing to become bigots, which is a lot of them: Don’t you think that the church-led wars against people’s sexual choices are designed bring fighters on both sides closer together?

mistermann 7y ago
> for those senior citizens who are willing to become bigots, which is a lot of them I wonder if you or the grandparent happen to know of some convincing evidence of this that I'm not aware of? I often wonder when I read claims like this if they are fact-based, and to what degree (usually never mentioned), or if they might instead be examples of the propogation of memes, similar to those related to race.

calvinmorrison 7y ago

spew generalisations elsewhere. Churches do work with older adults. Church communities give older adults a way to connect with other people, especially for those who are widowed, or don't have families. For me personally, I have been able to connect to an older generation that I don't have in my family and those are relationships that I treasure. It seems to me that these types of connections are EXACTLY what avoids loneliness and isolation. Churches are a big family, especially for those who are needy and infirmed. Be it going to deliver food to someone who cannot get out, or making sure to call them every week and check in, or picking them up and helping them get to the decons picnic, i think this is just yet another internet athiest with a sharp tongue who should probably sit down and shut up. maybe go to church and see what goes on there. Did you even read the artice?

barking 7y ago
I tend to agree with you and I'm not a churchgoer. Roy Hattersley an atheist former English politician wrote about the relief of Hurricane Katrina The Salvation Army has been given a special status as provider-in-chief of American disaster relief. But its work is being augmented by all sorts of other groups. Almost all of them have a religious origin and character. Notable by their absence are teams from rationalist societies, free thinkers' clubs and atheists' associations - the sort of people who not only scoff at religion's intellectual absurdity but also regard it as a positive force for evil. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/12/religion.uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/12/religion.uk
- Baeocystin 7y ago
  That's an old article. Take a look at current Kiva stats, for example: https://www.kiva.org/teams?queryString=%28A%2B%29+Atheists%2C+Agnostics%2C+Skeptics%2C+Freethinkers%2C+Secular+Humanists+and+the+Non-Religious&search=&category=all&membershipType=all&sortBy=overallLoanedAmount https://www.kiva.org/teams?queryString=%28A%2B%29+Atheists%2... The Atheist team is one of the top donors. There has been a significant surge in secular charity work over the past decade.
phamjamstudio 7y ago
For a long time my church community (mostly in their 20's-40's w/ some folks 60+) frequently worked w/ our local volunteer organizations that specifically reach out to the elderly, disabled, impoverished, etc. This included yard work, resume/career support, counseling, making care packages and so on I posted elsewhere that my first date with my now wife was volunteering at a hospice care center to provide some company to an elderly lady; she ended up dying before our eyes within a few hours. We spent another hour comforting her husband. Sidebar - sometimes it makes me sad to see people stereotype people so easily online. Kind of feels like I have to carry the weight of and associated judgment of all those who did bad things in God's name or whatever. This is probably how good police officer, teachers, oft criticized good public servants feel. Oh well, we all do what we can do. Thanks to all who continue to serve.

nostromo 7y ago

I'm an atheist but even I can see that this is an outdated view of churches in at least some of America. It's almost a little strange from my perspective how many churches are now almost secular in nature. Yes, they talk about god, good and evil, and read scripture. But it's much less prescriptive than it used to be and almost sounds like a pep-talk about being a good person, good spouse, and a good parent. Obviously this is from the rare interactions I have with churches -- usually in support of extended family.

mcgrath_sh 7y ago

I agree that Churches are in a position to help, but there are lots of obstacles to overcome. Church attendance is shrinking. Older Churches cost a lot of money to maintain, and even more modern Churches still are not free to operate. In the Diocese of Pittsburgh, donations to parishes have shrunk by 20-30% since the AG report came out (rightfully so). Outreach services depend on volunteers (and to a lesser degree, money). There are a lot of Parishes where young people are increasingly hands-off/un-involved. If you don’t have young people, your volunteer pool to provide outreach services continues to get smaller. Add in Parishes merging and your Church building closing, people feel less invested in the “community” of their Church. My mom does volunteer to spend time with people in nursing homes via the local Parish, but a once a week visitor isn’t much. Many of the people tell her that their kids rarely visit (or are too far away to visit) and their friends are also not mobile or have passed away. Even if the Parish had a mountain of volunteers, to visit everyone in even one 90 person home 3 times a week for an hour means 270 hours. That is a part time job for 10 people and that is only one small nursing home!

xamuel 7y ago

War against people's sexual choices? Like, with bombs and guns, or a figurative war? It's interesting to look at Jesus's actions in the area. A mob brought him a woman caught cheating on her husband. Asking, should she be put to death? They wanted to trap Jesus: if he said "Yes", he would violate Roman law, if he said "No", he would violate Jewish law. Jesus said, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her." (John 8:7). After that disbursed the mob, Jesus told the woman: "Now go and sin no more." There's nothing harder to convince a man of than the fact that he's a sinner. And yet, when I finally realized that fact and asked Jesus for forgiveness, it was more liberating than anything else in this world, more liberating than I could ever have possibly imagined. When you experience something like that, you realize: the kingdom of heaven is near.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
"War against people's sexual choices? Like, with bombs and guns, or a figurative war?" I guess it depends on what you define conversion therapy and other 'bible camp' type activities.
- xamuel 7y ago
  Pretty sure that's a vanishingly small minority of churches. BTW, did you know Jesus provided us a protocol for correcting such misguided churchmembers? You can read about it in Matthew 18:15-17. You should accept Christ as Lord and Savior and then apply this protocol against the offending church-leaders. If they refuse to listen to you, Jesus himself sanctions you treating them as outcasts!
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    The sentiment against LGBTQ people is not small at all, which is why I included 'and other bible camp activities'. Just because there is a religious tenent for it doesn't mean that religion is practicing that. Catholic institutions regularly commit systematic oppression of minority demographics, most notably by depriving women of necessary healthcare and medication. Protestant institutions in many places drive systems of oppression and ostracizing of vulnerable groups- victims of domestic violence, removing agency from women, labeling LGBTQ identities as morally wrong, etc.

mymythisisthis 7y ago

You can't reform churches. There beliefs are false, and they refuse to accept that.

dang 7y ago

Please don't take HN threads into religious flamewar, the last thing we want here. Your comment would have been fine without the second paragraph.

tathougies 7y ago

Well I belong to the supposedly sexually obsessed catholic church and our relatively small catholic parish mostly does poor ministries, and elder visits due to the local community needs. I dont think its an outdated view at all... The church provides disproportionate amounts of companionship even for non catholics