4 ms·

> - At least in the EU, more privacy is where the puck is going. They could take on Google's weaknesses. Ironically, it's Europe where privacy championing Appl

by tpush 7y ago

> - At least in the EU, more privacy is where the puck is going. They could take on Google's weaknesses. Ironically, it's Europe where privacy championing Apple is way less of a player than Google when it comes to smartphones and services, especially compared to the US market. So I'm not sure if a privacy conscious approach would buy them much in the EU, at least among consumers.

StreamBright 7y ago
Mostly due to 1 EUR = 1 USD pricing and other problems. Europe is a tier2 market for Apple.
- gruez 7y ago
  >1 EUR = 1 USD pricing Isn't that mostly explained by the fact that EUR prices have VAT included (typically 20%) and US prices do not?
  - StreamBright 7y ago
    I don't think so.
fruffy 7y ago
I was not able to find concrete sources but I think that has more to do with the expensive pricing of iPhones and Apple's former image as a somewhat invasive and consumerist company. I remember there being a decent amount of distrust against their vendor-lock-in techniques. Overall, I would say consumers' privacy-sensitivity in Europe expresses itself largely in the increased usage of Telegram, Tor, Firefox, and Linux compared to the US.
- Y_Y 7y ago
  I don't know why you've put "former" in there. Lots of people have iphones in Europe, but everyone knows it's an expensive commitment, and if you use all the nice integrations and Apple services it's hard to extricate yourself.
- vezycash 7y ago
  None of my friends stick with Telegram for long simply because of andorid's battery saver apps. Notifications simply wont show unless they open the telegram app.
  - gvurrdon 7y ago
    I don't use Telegram or Android at the moment and so can't be sure, but I wonder if this would help: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-remove-android-apps-from-the-battery-optimization-list/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-remove-android-a...
mxscho 7y ago
Because they sell their devices for US-based prices to people with EU-based income.
Silhouette 7y ago
Ironically, it's Europe where privacy championing Apple is way less of a player than Google when it comes to smartphones and services, especially compared to the US market. That's partly because Apple's rhetoric is not always matched by the practical realities of its devices and services. Are they better than Google/Android? Sure, by a long way. Are they actually good? Different question. For example, assume that you do not wish to transfer any data to or from your Apple device via any third party online system, including Apple's own iCloud, at least not unless it is fully end-to-end encrypted and there is no realistic possibility of the external system reading the data. Instead you prefer to keep everything local, for example connecting to another device over your local network or directly using one of the secure wireless mechanisms. This should be an entry-level requirement for any genuinely privacy-focussed system, yet to this day Apple's lock-in effects and the lack of end-to-end encryption for many types of data using iCloud are in direct conflict with achieving that most basic of privacy requirements.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  Connectivity is completely optional on iOS. You can operate without iCloud and securely transfer files through a variety of methods.
  - Silhouette 7y ago
    What methods would those be, please? I know a lot of people who would be very interested in the specifics of how to import or export things like calendar entries, notes, contacts and the like. Apple has only just introduced the ability to transfer everything from one iPhone to another directly. You still infamously can't transfer many common data sets onto or off those phones through standard protocols, and Apple's proprietary software seems to have a poor track record, again pushing users towards iCloud.
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      Since local was in your requirements, just plug your phone in to you computer and drag the data files out of the apps with iTunes. There's a whole interface for doing just this. If the particular app you have in mind doesn't support that feature (most of the ones I use do), that's not Apple's fault.
hutattedonmyarm 7y ago
iMessage is pretty useless in Europe, because alternatives like WhatsApp, Telegram, Viber, etc are pretty widespread. Aditionally a lot of Apple's new stuff is wither US exclusive or US first . Apple Pay is very new in a lot of countries and barely any banks support it (mainly because credit cards aren't as widely used I guess). Lots of Apple Maps features are only available in big cities, Apple stores are a lot farther apart over here. Asking Siri in German to play a song with an English name hardly ever works. Don't forget that US prices are without tax while their prices in Europe usually include VAT, so the devices seem a lot more expensive too
- tinus_hn 7y ago
  iMessage is useless because it’s just sms over internet but then it only works if the other person has an iPhone. It works fine but everyone uses WhatsApp because that works on all phones and you just can’t rely on everyone using an iPhone. There’s just not enough added value to justify that limitation. Originally iMessage was supposed to be opened up for third parties but that never happened for some reason.

by tpush 7y ago

StreamBright 7y ago

Mostly due to 1 EUR = 1 USD pricing and other problems. Europe is a tier2 market for Apple.

gruez 7y ago
>1 EUR = 1 USD pricing Isn't that mostly explained by the fact that EUR prices have VAT included (typically 20%) and US prices do not?
- StreamBright 7y ago
  I don't think so.

fruffy 7y ago

I was not able to find concrete sources but I think that has more to do with the expensive pricing of iPhones and Apple's former image as a somewhat invasive and consumerist company. I remember there being a decent amount of distrust against their vendor-lock-in techniques. Overall, I would say consumers' privacy-sensitivity in Europe expresses itself largely in the increased usage of Telegram, Tor, Firefox, and Linux compared to the US.

Y_Y 7y ago
I don't know why you've put "former" in there. Lots of people have iphones in Europe, but everyone knows it's an expensive commitment, and if you use all the nice integrations and Apple services it's hard to extricate yourself.
vezycash 7y ago
None of my friends stick with Telegram for long simply because of andorid's battery saver apps. Notifications simply wont show unless they open the telegram app.
- gvurrdon 7y ago
  I don't use Telegram or Android at the moment and so can't be sure, but I wonder if this would help: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-remove-android-apps-from-the-battery-optimization-list/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-remove-android-a...

mxscho 7y ago

Because they sell their devices for US-based prices to people with EU-based income.

Silhouette 7y ago

Ironically, it's Europe where privacy championing Apple is way less of a player than Google when it comes to smartphones and services, especially compared to the US market. That's partly because Apple's rhetoric is not always matched by the practical realities of its devices and services. Are they better than Google/Android? Sure, by a long way. Are they actually good? Different question. For example, assume that you do not wish to transfer any data to or from your Apple device via any third party online system, including Apple's own iCloud, at least not unless it is fully end-to-end encrypted and there is no realistic possibility of the external system reading the data. Instead you prefer to keep everything local, for example connecting to another device over your local network or directly using one of the secure wireless mechanisms. This should be an entry-level requirement for any genuinely privacy-focussed system, yet to this day Apple's lock-in effects and the lack of end-to-end encryption for many types of data using iCloud are in direct conflict with achieving that most basic of privacy requirements.

Spooky23 7y ago
Connectivity is completely optional on iOS. You can operate without iCloud and securely transfer files through a variety of methods.
- Silhouette 7y ago
  What methods would those be, please? I know a lot of people who would be very interested in the specifics of how to import or export things like calendar entries, notes, contacts and the like. Apple has only just introduced the ability to transfer everything from one iPhone to another directly. You still infamously can't transfer many common data sets onto or off those phones through standard protocols, and Apple's proprietary software seems to have a poor track record, again pushing users towards iCloud.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Since local was in your requirements, just plug your phone in to you computer and drag the data files out of the apps with iTunes. There's a whole interface for doing just this. If the particular app you have in mind doesn't support that feature (most of the ones I use do), that's not Apple's fault.

hutattedonmyarm 7y ago

iMessage is pretty useless in Europe, because alternatives like WhatsApp, Telegram, Viber, etc are pretty widespread. Aditionally a lot of Apple's new stuff is wither US exclusive or US first . Apple Pay is very new in a lot of countries and barely any banks support it (mainly because credit cards aren't as widely used I guess). Lots of Apple Maps features are only available in big cities, Apple stores are a lot farther apart over here. Asking Siri in German to play a song with an English name hardly ever works. Don't forget that US prices are without tax while their prices in Europe usually include VAT, so the devices seem a lot more expensive too

tinus_hn 7y ago
iMessage is useless because it’s just sms over internet but then it only works if the other person has an iPhone. It works fine but everyone uses WhatsApp because that works on all phones and you just can’t rely on everyone using an iPhone. There’s just not enough added value to justify that limitation. Originally iMessage was supposed to be opened up for third parties but that never happened for some reason.