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> the node for Desktop ( High Performance ) will be different to Phone / Tablet ( Low Power ) The iPhone CPUs are already competitive with Intel chips. They'v

by ken 7y ago

> the node for Desktop ( High Performance ) will be different to Phone / Tablet ( Low Power ) The iPhone CPUs are already competitive with Intel chips. They've got incredible single-core performance, great memory bandwidth, and solid 64-bit and SIMD support. What specific feature of a "high performance" node would they require that they aren't using for iPhones now? They've been pushing the limits on allegedly "mobile"-oriented architectures for years. Every time this comes up, I hear from the naysayers "Yes, Apple is great at mobile, but desktop is a different game", but then also "Apple's mobile chips are faster than many Intel desktop chips". The skeptics sound awfully similar to those who said "Apple is great at iPods but smartphones are a completely different game". > The cost of designing and testing a 5nm chips is roughly a billion. AFAICT, nobody in the world has a production 5nm chip yet. How can you put a price on something that nobody has successfully produced yet? If I were Apple and I were confident that just throwing $1B at it would solve all the engineering problems, I would absolutely do it. $40 per Mac for the best CPU (and independence from Intel) sounds like a steal.

ksec 7y ago
>The iPhone CPUs are already competitive with Intel chips. In selected benchmarks. That is like saying the Qualcomm ARM Sever Chips are already competitive with Intel Chips. But it is pretty close, at least to the point for most consumer usage it doesn't matter. >The iPhone CPUs are already competitive with Intel chips. >What specific feature of a "high performance" node At sub 10W ( The TDP for iPhone and iPad Pro ), not at 15W+ or 250W on the Mac Pro. You will require different tools, nodes, design guidelines operating at those TDP. No one is saying Apple cant do it, the question is if it make any financial sense doing it. >AFAICT, nobody in the world has a production 5nm chip yet. How can you put a price on something that nobody has successfully produced yet? https://semiengineering.com/5nm-vs-3nm/ https://semiengineering.com/5nm-vs-3nm/ The lead time for designing a chip / SoC with new node is roughly 2-3 years. Apple are already working ( finalising ) on 5nm SoC for next year, and they already knew the basic costing, ( excluding yield issues ). 3nm Costing Projection are also already known and are being worked on as we speak. >If I were Apple and I were confident that just throwing $1B at it would solve all the engineering problems, I would absolutely do it. $40 per Mac for the best CPU (and independence from Intel) sounds like a steal. Quoting myself excluding the actual cost of wafer. and yield. Apple would have made the jump if it really only cost them $40.

by ken 7y ago

ksec 7y ago

>The iPhone CPUs are already competitive with Intel chips. In selected benchmarks. That is like saying the Qualcomm ARM Sever Chips are already competitive with Intel Chips. But it is pretty close, at least to the point for most consumer usage it doesn't matter. >The iPhone CPUs are already competitive with Intel chips. >What specific feature of a "high performance" node At sub 10W ( The TDP for iPhone and iPad Pro ), not at 15W+ or 250W on the Mac Pro. You will require different tools, nodes, design guidelines operating at those TDP. No one is saying Apple cant do it, the question is if it make any financial sense doing it. >AFAICT, nobody in the world has a production 5nm chip yet. How can you put a price on something that nobody has successfully produced yet? https://semiengineering.com/5nm-vs-3nm/ https://semiengineering.com/5nm-vs-3nm/ The lead time for designing a chip / SoC with new node is roughly 2-3 years. Apple are already working ( finalising ) on 5nm SoC for next year, and they already knew the basic costing, ( excluding yield issues ). 3nm Costing Projection are also already known and are being worked on as we speak. >If I were Apple and I were confident that just throwing $1B at it would solve all the engineering problems, I would absolutely do it. $40 per Mac for the best CPU (and independence from Intel) sounds like a steal. Quoting myself excluding the actual cost of wafer. and yield. Apple would have made the jump if it really only cost them $40.