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many mature frameworks have good standards. For php you can look at any code base that adbides by PSR standards and get good code. Not only that but laravel is

many mature frameworks have good standards. For php you can look at any code base that adbides by PSR standards and get good code. Not only that but laravel is in a mature space where the problems are already solved. Its basically reinventing the wheel. Im not surprised that Laravel is written cleanly but I hate its API. It reminds me of the bloat of Zend but with an obnoxious artsy style added to it. Im an engineer not an artisan.

noir_lord 7y ago
> Im an engineer not an artisan. That was mostly branding, "I'm not a code monkey banging out the same thing as has been done 500 times before I'm an artisan. Meanwhile the actual framework breaks backwards compatibility regularly and frequently and only just with 6 picked a damn versioning system. Imo my opinion if you want to see a good framework that solves it's problems mostly well and is properly decoupled then Symfony kicks the shit out of Laravel on documentation, religious adherence to deprecating and backwards compatibility as well as genuinely useful/genuinely decoupled components. The author of Laravel knew that as a massive chunk of Laravel depends on Symfony components, in fact the earlier versions where basically Ruby on Rails implemented via Symfony.
SahAssar 7y ago
> look at any code base that adbides by PSR standards and get good code. No. PSR does not at all ensure good code, only standardized code style and some of the interfaces.
- cutler 7y ago
  PSR is an abomination. You end-up with more blank lines than code and about 5 lines of doc comments to every line of code. Factor-in PHP's pseudo-Java verbosity and the actual business logic is drowning in a sea of boilerplate.
- johannes1234321 7y ago
  It does one thing: It indicates the author is willing to use "established patterns" instead of reinventing the wheel. (While sometimes it's good to reinvent the wheel - today's vehicles won't work with wodden wheels)

noir_lord 7y ago

> Im an engineer not an artisan. That was mostly branding, "I'm not a code monkey banging out the same thing as has been done 500 times before I'm an artisan. Meanwhile the actual framework breaks backwards compatibility regularly and frequently and only just with 6 picked a damn versioning system. Imo my opinion if you want to see a good framework that solves it's problems mostly well and is properly decoupled then Symfony kicks the shit out of Laravel on documentation, religious adherence to deprecating and backwards compatibility as well as genuinely useful/genuinely decoupled components. The author of Laravel knew that as a massive chunk of Laravel depends on Symfony components, in fact the earlier versions where basically Ruby on Rails implemented via Symfony.

SahAssar 7y ago

> look at any code base that adbides by PSR standards and get good code. No. PSR does not at all ensure good code, only standardized code style and some of the interfaces.

cutler 7y ago
PSR is an abomination. You end-up with more blank lines than code and about 5 lines of doc comments to every line of code. Factor-in PHP's pseudo-Java verbosity and the actual business logic is drowning in a sea of boilerplate.
johannes1234321 7y ago
It does one thing: It indicates the author is willing to use "established patterns" instead of reinventing the wheel. (While sometimes it's good to reinvent the wheel - today's vehicles won't work with wodden wheels)