4 ms·

Malice? As quaint as that saying is, malice plays no part in this discussion. I'm attributing laziness, which is quite removed from malice. People using jquery

by ergo98 16y ago

Malice? As quaint as that saying is, malice plays no part in this discussion. I'm attributing laziness, which is quite removed from malice. People using jquery should be evolved enough to know what CDNs are, and the dangers of hotlinking (which is as simple as "jQuery decided to reorganize their site, and now a thousand sites are broken").

mike-cardwell 16y ago
I guarantee that some people are using the wrong URLs because they received bad advice, or copied from code they shouldn't have, or were simply told by somebody that they could link to the version on jquery.com, so did. These people don't need punishing, they need educating. I find the whole "fuck em, it's their fault" attitude to be very childish.
- ergo98 16y ago
  "I guarantee that some people are using the wrong URLs because they received bad advice, or copied from code they shouldn't have, or were simply told by somebody that they could link to the version on jquery.com, so did." Is that not precisely what I said? Laziness. I feel like I'm debating with a tired Hallmark card. Yes, high road and all that. We get it. Just as you misplaced the malice quote (you were a little too eager to play that one), now you're on about punishment: Who said anything about punishment? Saying "Don't hotlink, but we're giving you 30 days grace" is not remotely "punishment". That you portray it as such is, honestly, outrageous.
  - mike-cardwell 16y ago
    "Is that not precisely what I said? Laziness." No. You can't both understand the word "laziness" and attribute that to the explanations I provided. "I feel like I'm debating with a tired Hallmark card. Yes, high road and all that. We get it." I feel like I'm debating with somebody who is very intolerant. "Just as you misplaced the malice quote (you were a little too eager to play that one)" I did not misplace it, and I stand by the statement, and exactly how I used and formatted it. "now you're on about punishment: Who said anything about punishment? Saying "Don't hotlink, but we're giving you 30 days grace" is not remotely "punishment". That you portray it as such is, honestly, outrageous." You're easily angered aren't you. As I said, it would be trivial to contact them directly and tell them about the problem, and not doing so when it would be so easy giving the reason that they should have known better in the first place is a clear kind of punishment yes. I'm not continuing this discussion with you. I have more fun things to do with my New Years Eve than debate with an angry troll.
    - ergo98 16y ago
      Pretend to take the high road. Misrepresent what I've said in reply after reply (now you're onto the "don't get angry!" screed which is one of my favorites). Pull the "I'm done!" card just as you've declared me a troll. I see that you've mastered this technique, and your black belt awaits. I'm not done because I've debated with this ridiculous tactic enough to see it for what it is. Copy-pasting code that you don't understand is pretty much the definition of laziness. And just to be clear, it's "trivial" for jQuery to do this, in your mind, because you're not the one having to do it. Probably thousands of tiny sites that are doing this (I doubt it's any big numbers sites), each requiring you to go through the whois process to find a webmaster. Not as trivial as you proclaim.
      - dandelany 16y ago
        > Copy-pasting code that you don't understand is pretty much the definition of laziness. Disagree. Copy-pasting code that you don't understand is how most people learn how to code on the web. It's how I learned. Most junior web developers do not understand everything that goes on in the web stack. They piece together the ability to run a functioning website by putting together bits of knowledge they pick up along the way. Some of this knowledge comes from reputable sources, like the jQuery documentation. Some of it comes from sources that may, albeit wrongly, recommend hotlinking, such as friends or Experts-Exchange. When you're new to a subject, and there are that many unknowns, and you don't have a great mentor, it's hard to know exactly which parts are important to understand thoroughly, and which can be attributed to "magic" for the moment. Most people learn to program for the web because they need to get a project online, which means they are more focused on getting something working, rather than trying to grok every bit of the stack. I would bet that the vast majority of people that hotlink jQuery fall firmly into this category. It's not that they don't want to learn how not to hotlink, or are too busy or too lazy to learn, it's that they don't know that this is something they need to learn. And that, sir, is definitively ignorance, not laziness. To be precise, it's ignorance of the fact that they are ignorant. PS: Don't take disagreement personally, and don't call the person you're disagreeing with a "Hallmark card". It makes you look like a troll.
        deleted 16y ago
bzbarsky 16y ago
> People using jquery should be evolved enough to know what > CDNs are There are lots and lots of monkeys using jquery. Cargo-cultist monkeys, at that. At least that's my impression from the browser bugs I've seen filed with snippets of jquery code. I wouldn't extrapolate knowledge of CDNs, or much of anything other than jquery basics, from use of jquery.

by ergo98 16y ago

mike-cardwell 16y ago

I guarantee that some people are using the wrong URLs because they received bad advice, or copied from code they shouldn't have, or were simply told by somebody that they could link to the version on jquery.com, so did. These people don't need punishing, they need educating. I find the whole "fuck em, it's their fault" attitude to be very childish.

ergo98 16y ago
"I guarantee that some people are using the wrong URLs because they received bad advice, or copied from code they shouldn't have, or were simply told by somebody that they could link to the version on jquery.com, so did." Is that not precisely what I said? Laziness. I feel like I'm debating with a tired Hallmark card. Yes, high road and all that. We get it. Just as you misplaced the malice quote (you were a little too eager to play that one), now you're on about punishment: Who said anything about punishment? Saying "Don't hotlink, but we're giving you 30 days grace" is not remotely "punishment". That you portray it as such is, honestly, outrageous.
- mike-cardwell 16y ago
  "Is that not precisely what I said? Laziness." No. You can't both understand the word "laziness" and attribute that to the explanations I provided. "I feel like I'm debating with a tired Hallmark card. Yes, high road and all that. We get it." I feel like I'm debating with somebody who is very intolerant. "Just as you misplaced the malice quote (you were a little too eager to play that one)" I did not misplace it, and I stand by the statement, and exactly how I used and formatted it. "now you're on about punishment: Who said anything about punishment? Saying "Don't hotlink, but we're giving you 30 days grace" is not remotely "punishment". That you portray it as such is, honestly, outrageous." You're easily angered aren't you. As I said, it would be trivial to contact them directly and tell them about the problem, and not doing so when it would be so easy giving the reason that they should have known better in the first place is a clear kind of punishment yes. I'm not continuing this discussion with you. I have more fun things to do with my New Years Eve than debate with an angry troll.
  - ergo98 16y ago
    Pretend to take the high road. Misrepresent what I've said in reply after reply (now you're onto the "don't get angry!" screed which is one of my favorites). Pull the "I'm done!" card just as you've declared me a troll. I see that you've mastered this technique, and your black belt awaits. I'm not done because I've debated with this ridiculous tactic enough to see it for what it is. Copy-pasting code that you don't understand is pretty much the definition of laziness. And just to be clear, it's "trivial" for jQuery to do this, in your mind, because you're not the one having to do it. Probably thousands of tiny sites that are doing this (I doubt it's any big numbers sites), each requiring you to go through the whois process to find a webmaster. Not as trivial as you proclaim.
    - dandelany 16y ago
      > Copy-pasting code that you don't understand is pretty much the definition of laziness. Disagree. Copy-pasting code that you don't understand is how most people learn how to code on the web. It's how I learned. Most junior web developers do not understand everything that goes on in the web stack. They piece together the ability to run a functioning website by putting together bits of knowledge they pick up along the way. Some of this knowledge comes from reputable sources, like the jQuery documentation. Some of it comes from sources that may, albeit wrongly, recommend hotlinking, such as friends or Experts-Exchange. When you're new to a subject, and there are that many unknowns, and you don't have a great mentor, it's hard to know exactly which parts are important to understand thoroughly, and which can be attributed to "magic" for the moment. Most people learn to program for the web because they need to get a project online, which means they are more focused on getting something working, rather than trying to grok every bit of the stack. I would bet that the vast majority of people that hotlink jQuery fall firmly into this category. It's not that they don't want to learn how not to hotlink, or are too busy or too lazy to learn, it's that they don't know that this is something they need to learn. And that, sir, is definitively ignorance, not laziness. To be precise, it's ignorance of the fact that they are ignorant. PS: Don't take disagreement personally, and don't call the person you're disagreeing with a "Hallmark card". It makes you look like a troll.
      - deleted 16y ago

bzbarsky 16y ago

> People using jquery should be evolved enough to know what > CDNs are There are lots and lots of monkeys using jquery. Cargo-cultist monkeys, at that. At least that's my impression from the browser bugs I've seen filed with snippets of jquery code. I wouldn't extrapolate knowledge of CDNs, or much of anything other than jquery basics, from use of jquery.