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If you go and look at the Map/Reduce/Filter, Channels, Containers, and Append sections of the examples, there isn't any use of contracts. I see. I'm of the opi

If you go and look at the Map/Reduce/Filter, Channels, Containers, and Append sections of the examples, there isn't any use of contracts. I see. I'm of the opinion that the Go team might be more cautious and introduce a more limited form of generics first, which seems in line with what you're saying. In my experience, this fills most use cases. It allows generic data structures, and generic functions over those structures. How would one make something like ConcurrentMap? Perhaps some operations on a map could be exposed and "overridden?"

lalaithion 7y ago
It would be simple to write a ConcurrentMap. What is more difficult is writing a function which accepts both ConcurrentMaps and TreeMaps. In Java, they would both inherit from Map. In this proposal(/Rust/Haskell) they would implement the same contract(/trait/interface). In my proposal... there isn't an elegant solution. In some cases, you can write the function to be generic over an insertion function `insert func(T)`, if all you need is assertion, and then you can pass `treeMap.insert` as the parameter. If you really truly need to be generic over the entire `Map` interface, that is one of the cases that I claim only takes up 10% of the cases. In that case, you could define a type which contains all of the functions a Map needs, and then you could construct that and manually pass that in. This can be viewed as a desugaring of contracts. One implementation that contracts could have would be to, at runtime, construct and pass a value containing the functions that the contract specified are possible.
- higherkinded 7y ago
  It's "typeclass", not "interface". Though it works similar and is, in fact, just a way to define a constraint. As of your described way of desugaring the contract, looks way too cluttered. It's exactly the reason why Reader and ReaderT exist in Haskell. Even though the proposal's contract syntax doesn't look very beautiful, it's still drastically better than keeping track of drilled structs of functions, the latter will become a mess really really fast, so having a way to conveniently constraint the accepted types while having a full-blown parametric polymorphism is essential for a modern language. Not sure exactly why anyone would be against that.
  - lalaithion 7y ago
    Sigh, I really need to read my posts before submitting. You're right, of course it's typeclass. The whole point is to implement the bare bones of a parametric polymorphic system without constraining further development of the language. Additionally, it discourages complexity and requires explicitness, two goals of Go. As far as my description of desugaring the contract, that is literally how Haskell implements typeclasses.
    - higherkinded 7y ago
      Well, yeah, Reader is that kind of thing. I guess that the complexity people are concerned about is that once you implement a parametric polymorphism, HKTs are inevitable and that probably requires some brain flexing in order to get the meaning of a structure, which defeats the main purpose that is being explicit and simple. Pretty much a deadlock. I now understand why the community is so in odds with the parametric polymorphism as the concept but I'm also sure that simplicity of use and convenience of writing a robust solution is the two things that require it. You can't keep your head near the sand and avoid HKTs when you want flexibility and you can't allow that type of polymorphism whilst striving for what's Go trying to do. While understanding the both standpoints, though, I still hope that Go will get parametric polymorphism as it's just so much more pleasant and convenient than carrying around a mess of structures to be explicit no matter the costs.

lalaithion 7y ago

It would be simple to write a ConcurrentMap. What is more difficult is writing a function which accepts both ConcurrentMaps and TreeMaps. In Java, they would both inherit from Map. In this proposal(/Rust/Haskell) they would implement the same contract(/trait/interface). In my proposal... there isn't an elegant solution. In some cases, you can write the function to be generic over an insertion function `insert func(T)`, if all you need is assertion, and then you can pass `treeMap.insert` as the parameter. If you really truly need to be generic over the entire `Map` interface, that is one of the cases that I claim only takes up 10% of the cases. In that case, you could define a type which contains all of the functions a Map needs, and then you could construct that and manually pass that in. This can be viewed as a desugaring of contracts. One implementation that contracts could have would be to, at runtime, construct and pass a value containing the functions that the contract specified are possible.

higherkinded 7y ago
It's "typeclass", not "interface". Though it works similar and is, in fact, just a way to define a constraint. As of your described way of desugaring the contract, looks way too cluttered. It's exactly the reason why Reader and ReaderT exist in Haskell. Even though the proposal's contract syntax doesn't look very beautiful, it's still drastically better than keeping track of drilled structs of functions, the latter will become a mess really really fast, so having a way to conveniently constraint the accepted types while having a full-blown parametric polymorphism is essential for a modern language. Not sure exactly why anyone would be against that.
- lalaithion 7y ago
  Sigh, I really need to read my posts before submitting. You're right, of course it's typeclass. The whole point is to implement the bare bones of a parametric polymorphic system without constraining further development of the language. Additionally, it discourages complexity and requires explicitness, two goals of Go. As far as my description of desugaring the contract, that is literally how Haskell implements typeclasses.
  - higherkinded 7y ago
    Well, yeah, Reader is that kind of thing. I guess that the complexity people are concerned about is that once you implement a parametric polymorphism, HKTs are inevitable and that probably requires some brain flexing in order to get the meaning of a structure, which defeats the main purpose that is being explicit and simple. Pretty much a deadlock. I now understand why the community is so in odds with the parametric polymorphism as the concept but I'm also sure that simplicity of use and convenience of writing a robust solution is the two things that require it. You can't keep your head near the sand and avoid HKTs when you want flexibility and you can't allow that type of polymorphism whilst striving for what's Go trying to do. While understanding the both standpoints, though, I still hope that Go will get parametric polymorphism as it's just so much more pleasant and convenient than carrying around a mess of structures to be explicit no matter the costs.