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It seems to be stated as a fact in this discussion that you can't play a game such as WoW and do anything other productive on the side, but it's a lot more nuan

by xal 16y ago

It seems to be stated as a fact in this discussion that you can't play a game such as WoW and do anything other productive on the side, but it's a lot more nuanced. Anecdotally, I've been playing WoW almost non stop since it launched and have been raiding once to three times a week. During this time I also got married, had a kid, founded Shopify, overtook the CEO role, grew it to be a multi million dollar business. In this community that seems far from being a failure. I'm engaging in anecdotal junk science here but my theory is that the people who really loose themselves in games like WoW are people with very poor time management skills. I'm convinced those people have always been around before. However, previously almost all activities came with some inherent caps on the time you can productively spend on those. All sports wear you out and force you to stop after some time. TV repeats pretty quickly and there is no original content during the night. Reading works but that's a socially fully acceptable timesink. WoW is just extremely good game that fulfills a lot Maslow's needs, especially the top ones. There is a great asymmetry in the lure of this game and the established defenses of some people. I think one of the key parts of parenting for our generation will be to equipt our children with the time management skills and the willpower to handle and enjoy games like WoW properly.

cheald 16y ago
Fully agreed. I've been playing since launch at a similar level, and I've since gotten married, had a kid, founded and sold a startup, and done a bunch of other stuff. I work from home, so you betcha it takes good time management to not spend time playing when I should be working, but I think I've got a pretty decent handle on it. (Plus, writing addons is a fantastic way to switch mental gears to recharge sometimes, too. And it's pretty decent residual hobby income, to boot.) WoW is very easy to spend way too much time in if you're not careful, but it's not inherently evil; like anything which is fun and enjoyable, if you spent an inordinate amount of time on it, that time will eventually have to start coming out of other activities. In moderation, it can be great.
- cageface 16y ago
  Is there any money to be made writing WoW addons? My impression was that most people were doing it out of love and begging for donations just to cover bandwidth costs.
  - cheald 16y ago
    There's good money to be made, yes. Like the app store or Facebook games or whatnot, the best benefits are realized if you're a top-tier developer, but Curse (http://curse.com http://curse.com) runs a revenue-share program with addon authors. Donations don't cover much, generally, but Curse's payouts cover about half of my rent. I use the platform because they provide git repos, automatic release management, and issue tracking, but I'm certainly not going to complain about the revenue share. :) I write addons because I enjoy writing them, and because they scratch itches I want scratched. I've never sat down and written an addon with financial incentives in mind, but the resultant income is a very nice bonus. I know a few guys like the QuestHelper guy were making extremely good money off of addons - enough to be a full-time job - but it's very hard to build a career on that; Blizzard can kill that income stream even more easily than Apple can with an app store app, because they continually fold the popular stuff into the base UI. If your massively popular addon has its concept shipped in the base UI, your installed base drops precipitously, and the income stream dries up.
    - cageface 16y ago
      Interesting. I had considered writing some addons as a possible alternative to mobile app development for a little extra income but I gave it up because I assumed it wasn't viable. Glad to hear otherwise.
      - cheald 16y ago
        It's likely far less lucrative than mobile apps. I've got some exceptionally popular addons, but they aren't going to make me rich. I suspect the average developer with low-to-medium visibility addons doesn't make very good money with them. (I've been meaning to get into mobile app development; I've written a free Android app, but I can't seem to come up with a good concept for something I could charge for)
cageface 16y ago
Good point. As a game and as an immersive environment there's a lot of good to be said for WoW. The game mechanics are actually pretty interesting. I don't think it's inherently any worse a use of time than watching TV. It can be dangerous for people without the discipline to limit their game time though.
ced 16y ago
I think one of the key parts of parenting for our generation will be to equipt our children with [...] the willpower to handle and enjoy games like WoW properly. How do you do that?
- xal 16y ago
  I don't have the answer to it yet. However, it will likely involve exposing them to WoW or it's equivalent and then showing them how more long term sound activities can be even more rewarding.
jacquesm 16y ago
There is a subtle problem with all this, which is that you don't know what your life would have been had you not played WoW, it may be that you would be living in a cardboard box or it may be that you would have ended up even better than where you are today. The best I can glean from your description is that for some people playing a game like WoW need not be a debilitating thing. I know a person that uses a scary amount of hard drugs and that in spite of that still functions quite well. Of course everybody has been saying 'it won't last long' but they've been saying that for longer than I can remember and he's still at it. That doesn't mean that in general hard drugs are not a negative and it does not mean that he'll never get the bill. It just hasn't happened yet.
ct 16y ago
"I'm engaging in anecdotal junk science here but my theory is that the people who really loose themselves in games like WoW are people with very poor time management skills." I totally concur with this statement. It's just a matter of prioritizing your time correctly. There doesn't need to be all of this WoW is a drug you need to cut it off completely or else you'll be a fat gamer that hasn't gone anywhere in life. All of this WoW bashing could easily apply to several other things where people don't take in moderation, like alcohol, watching football, etc.

by xal 16y ago

cheald 16y ago

Fully agreed. I've been playing since launch at a similar level, and I've since gotten married, had a kid, founded and sold a startup, and done a bunch of other stuff. I work from home, so you betcha it takes good time management to not spend time playing when I should be working, but I think I've got a pretty decent handle on it. (Plus, writing addons is a fantastic way to switch mental gears to recharge sometimes, too. And it's pretty decent residual hobby income, to boot.) WoW is very easy to spend way too much time in if you're not careful, but it's not inherently evil; like anything which is fun and enjoyable, if you spent an inordinate amount of time on it, that time will eventually have to start coming out of other activities. In moderation, it can be great.

cageface 16y ago
Is there any money to be made writing WoW addons? My impression was that most people were doing it out of love and begging for donations just to cover bandwidth costs.
- cheald 16y ago
  There's good money to be made, yes. Like the app store or Facebook games or whatnot, the best benefits are realized if you're a top-tier developer, but Curse (http://curse.com http://curse.com) runs a revenue-share program with addon authors. Donations don't cover much, generally, but Curse's payouts cover about half of my rent. I use the platform because they provide git repos, automatic release management, and issue tracking, but I'm certainly not going to complain about the revenue share. :) I write addons because I enjoy writing them, and because they scratch itches I want scratched. I've never sat down and written an addon with financial incentives in mind, but the resultant income is a very nice bonus. I know a few guys like the QuestHelper guy were making extremely good money off of addons - enough to be a full-time job - but it's very hard to build a career on that; Blizzard can kill that income stream even more easily than Apple can with an app store app, because they continually fold the popular stuff into the base UI. If your massively popular addon has its concept shipped in the base UI, your installed base drops precipitously, and the income stream dries up.
  - cageface 16y ago
    Interesting. I had considered writing some addons as a possible alternative to mobile app development for a little extra income but I gave it up because I assumed it wasn't viable. Glad to hear otherwise.
    - cheald 16y ago
      It's likely far less lucrative than mobile apps. I've got some exceptionally popular addons, but they aren't going to make me rich. I suspect the average developer with low-to-medium visibility addons doesn't make very good money with them. (I've been meaning to get into mobile app development; I've written a free Android app, but I can't seem to come up with a good concept for something I could charge for)

cageface 16y ago

Good point. As a game and as an immersive environment there's a lot of good to be said for WoW. The game mechanics are actually pretty interesting. I don't think it's inherently any worse a use of time than watching TV. It can be dangerous for people without the discipline to limit their game time though.

ced 16y ago

I think one of the key parts of parenting for our generation will be to equipt our children with [...] the willpower to handle and enjoy games like WoW properly. How do you do that?

xal 16y ago
I don't have the answer to it yet. However, it will likely involve exposing them to WoW or it's equivalent and then showing them how more long term sound activities can be even more rewarding.

jacquesm 16y ago

There is a subtle problem with all this, which is that you don't know what your life would have been had you not played WoW, it may be that you would be living in a cardboard box or it may be that you would have ended up even better than where you are today. The best I can glean from your description is that for some people playing a game like WoW need not be a debilitating thing. I know a person that uses a scary amount of hard drugs and that in spite of that still functions quite well. Of course everybody has been saying 'it won't last long' but they've been saying that for longer than I can remember and he's still at it. That doesn't mean that in general hard drugs are not a negative and it does not mean that he'll never get the bill. It just hasn't happened yet.

ct 16y ago

"I'm engaging in anecdotal junk science here but my theory is that the people who really loose themselves in games like WoW are people with very poor time management skills." I totally concur with this statement. It's just a matter of prioritizing your time correctly. There doesn't need to be all of this WoW is a drug you need to cut it off completely or else you'll be a fat gamer that hasn't gone anywhere in life. All of this WoW bashing could easily apply to several other things where people don't take in moderation, like alcohol, watching football, etc.