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> nearly 100% genetic -- see Kenyans and running Kenyans/Ethiopians have held the world record in the marathon since 2003. An Ethiopian also held it for a few

> nearly 100% genetic -- see Kenyans and running Kenyans/Ethiopians have held the world record in the marathon since 2003. An Ethiopian also held it for a few months in 1998, and most of a year in 1964. Were Kenyans not genetically dominant until 20 years ago? Or are there other factors that caused the rise of a large number of elite runners from a particular area of the world? Running is one area where it is mindbogglingly obvious that there are significant genetic factors involved, yet there are clear and significant changes in running ability by country of origin for reasons that have nothing to do with genetics. 40 IQ points less on average is no joke, but also doesn't point the finger at genetics any more than it does at culture or primary education.

papln 7y ago
https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a20814362/50-years-ago-kenya-established-its-distance-running-dominance/ https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a20814362/50-years-ago-ken... "50 Years Ago, Kenya Established Its Distance Running Dominance The African country became a medal-winning power at the British Empire and Commonwealth Games in August 1966, and hasn’t looked back." Obviously (1) getting invited to the event and (2) learning the rules of a particular event are major selection factors when drawing conclusions from event results.
- foldr 7y ago
  The dominance of Kenyan athletes in these events is probably mostly due to altitude rather than genes. There's certainly no direct evidence of any significant genetic component, whereas we know that growing up at higher altitudes confers certain advantages.
  - EForEndeavour 7y ago
    It's both. High-altitude populations do show genetic adaptations. There is in fact plenty of evidence of genetic adaptation to altitude. If you grew up at high altitude and are not of Kenyan/Ethiopian descent, you'd be pretty well-adapted, but not as well on average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_humans#Ethiopians_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_hu...
    - foldr 7y ago
      Maybe, but that's largely speculative. We haven't identified any particular combination of genes that (a) is almost unique to the Kenyan population and (b) has been shown to have a significant effect on long-distance running performance. All we really know is that - not surprisingly - people who grow up at high altitudes tend to use oxygen a bit more efficiently than people who don't.
      - EForEndeavour 7y ago
        But such genomes exist: they literally define the people who have lived in the high-altitude regions around the Rift Valley for many generations. And the genetic component to Ethiopian and Kenyan dominance in long-distance running is well-researched. Far more is known than your comment suggests, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4037248/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4037248/ Of course, genetics interact strongly with environment. That's precisely why someone raised in a high-altitude Ethiopian community but whose ancestors are from, say, the Netherlands would not be expected to be as well-adapted to altitude (or long-distance running) compared to their historically Ethiopian neighbours, all else being equal.
        foldr 7y ago
        There's no consensus in the literature about the role of genetic factors in Kenyan dominance. For any X you can find journal articles arguing that X is genetically determined. See e.g. https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijspp/7/2/article-p92.xml https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijspp/7/2/a... for a more balanced perspective. >That's precisely why someone raised in a high-altitude Ethiopian community but whose ancestors are from, say, the Netherlands would not be expected to be as well-adapted to altitude (or long-distance running) compared to their historically Ethiopian neighbours, all else being equal You say "would not be expected to be" because, of course, no-one has actually done this experiment and no-one knows what would actually happen. Nor indeed would we be able to verify that any given individual from the Netherlands does in fact lack the putatively relevant genes, since we don't know what they are.

papln 7y ago

https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a20814362/50-years-ago-kenya-established-its-distance-running-dominance/ https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a20814362/50-years-ago-ken... "50 Years Ago, Kenya Established Its Distance Running Dominance The African country became a medal-winning power at the British Empire and Commonwealth Games in August 1966, and hasn’t looked back." Obviously (1) getting invited to the event and (2) learning the rules of a particular event are major selection factors when drawing conclusions from event results.

foldr 7y ago
The dominance of Kenyan athletes in these events is probably mostly due to altitude rather than genes. There's certainly no direct evidence of any significant genetic component, whereas we know that growing up at higher altitudes confers certain advantages.
- EForEndeavour 7y ago
  It's both. High-altitude populations do show genetic adaptations. There is in fact plenty of evidence of genetic adaptation to altitude. If you grew up at high altitude and are not of Kenyan/Ethiopian descent, you'd be pretty well-adapted, but not as well on average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_humans#Ethiopians_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_hu...
  - foldr 7y ago
    Maybe, but that's largely speculative. We haven't identified any particular combination of genes that (a) is almost unique to the Kenyan population and (b) has been shown to have a significant effect on long-distance running performance. All we really know is that - not surprisingly - people who grow up at high altitudes tend to use oxygen a bit more efficiently than people who don't.
    - EForEndeavour 7y ago
      But such genomes exist: they literally define the people who have lived in the high-altitude regions around the Rift Valley for many generations. And the genetic component to Ethiopian and Kenyan dominance in long-distance running is well-researched. Far more is known than your comment suggests, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4037248/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4037248/ Of course, genetics interact strongly with environment. That's precisely why someone raised in a high-altitude Ethiopian community but whose ancestors are from, say, the Netherlands would not be expected to be as well-adapted to altitude (or long-distance running) compared to their historically Ethiopian neighbours, all else being equal.
      - foldr 7y ago
        There's no consensus in the literature about the role of genetic factors in Kenyan dominance. For any X you can find journal articles arguing that X is genetically determined. See e.g. https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijspp/7/2/article-p92.xml https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijspp/7/2/a... for a more balanced perspective. >That's precisely why someone raised in a high-altitude Ethiopian community but whose ancestors are from, say, the Netherlands would not be expected to be as well-adapted to altitude (or long-distance running) compared to their historically Ethiopian neighbours, all else being equal You say "would not be expected to be" because, of course, no-one has actually done this experiment and no-one knows what would actually happen. Nor indeed would we be able to verify that any given individual from the Netherlands does in fact lack the putatively relevant genes, since we don't know what they are.