5 ms·

That's part of the problem. IQ does predict educational achievement, but education has very little effect on IQ. For example, early intervention education has a

That's part of the problem. IQ does predict educational achievement, but education has very little effect on IQ. For example, early intervention education has a temporary effect on children that disappears as they age. In other words, IQ does not measure how educated one is.

matthewdgreen 7y ago
And yet directly practicing for an IQ test can improve test scores significantly. And simultaneously, some large-scale IQ measurement papers seem to use "proxies" -- things like standardized tests that are the sort of thing that educational curricula tend to include practice for. So I'm not sure how completely I can accept this claim.
- Chathamization 7y ago
  Also, a county closing all schools for several years lead to significant drops in IQ scores[1]. [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/2294274?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/2294274?seq=1#page_scan_tab_con...
- papln 7y ago
  IQ tests scores are on the same as IQ, which puts a hge asterisk on every test score. It's an unfortunate cloudiness of using maps for territories. This phenomenan is especially notable nowadays where wealthy parents canb buy a diagnosis to givetheir children extra time on IQ tests. And then of course ADHD drugs and other stimulants raise the question of what it means for a person to "have" an IQ, if that IQ (and/or test score) is influenced by doping. Stimulants and the brain question our notion of what is an "individual", much as the bacteria in our gut do. The idea of an "individual" is a very synthetic Western mathematical concept that does not have a strong basis in the science of the natural world. https://www.sciencealert.com/this-tree-stump-is-mysteriously-being-kept-alive-with-a-little-help-from-its-friends https://www.sciencealert.com/this-tree-stump-is-mysteriously... "Scientists Find Weird, Zombie-Like Tree Being Kept Alive by a Forest 'Superorganism'"
skybrian 7y ago
Yes, and wouldn't it be weird if the effects of early education didn't fade? At the end of high school, we would expect a larger effect from what a student learned in high school than what they learned in kindergarten. Since kids are still learning, many deficiencies in kindergarten can be made up later, and it wouldn't it be strange if they couldn't? I would expect this to be true of all environmental effects, unless they do permanent damage, or there is some critical window for learning. Stability over a person's lifetime, regardless of experience, is what you'd expect of a genetic effect. Environment varies. Genetics doesn't.
- squirrelicus 7y ago
  That's the finding. The IQ you end up with as an adult isn't affected by your tutelage.
mcguire 7y ago
Very true. Why, in the 4th grade, my IQ was measured as 150. By the time I was 12, it had gone down to 138. Today, I'm an eggplant.
- antisthenes 7y ago
  I imagine regression to the mean in standardized testing is a thing as well.

matthewdgreen 7y ago

And yet directly practicing for an IQ test can improve test scores significantly. And simultaneously, some large-scale IQ measurement papers seem to use "proxies" -- things like standardized tests that are the sort of thing that educational curricula tend to include practice for. So I'm not sure how completely I can accept this claim.

Chathamization 7y ago
Also, a county closing all schools for several years lead to significant drops in IQ scores[1]. [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/2294274?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/2294274?seq=1#page_scan_tab_con...
papln 7y ago
IQ tests scores are on the same as IQ, which puts a hge asterisk on every test score. It's an unfortunate cloudiness of using maps for territories. This phenomenan is especially notable nowadays where wealthy parents canb buy a diagnosis to givetheir children extra time on IQ tests. And then of course ADHD drugs and other stimulants raise the question of what it means for a person to "have" an IQ, if that IQ (and/or test score) is influenced by doping. Stimulants and the brain question our notion of what is an "individual", much as the bacteria in our gut do. The idea of an "individual" is a very synthetic Western mathematical concept that does not have a strong basis in the science of the natural world. https://www.sciencealert.com/this-tree-stump-is-mysteriously-being-kept-alive-with-a-little-help-from-its-friends https://www.sciencealert.com/this-tree-stump-is-mysteriously... "Scientists Find Weird, Zombie-Like Tree Being Kept Alive by a Forest 'Superorganism'"

skybrian 7y ago

Yes, and wouldn't it be weird if the effects of early education didn't fade? At the end of high school, we would expect a larger effect from what a student learned in high school than what they learned in kindergarten. Since kids are still learning, many deficiencies in kindergarten can be made up later, and it wouldn't it be strange if they couldn't? I would expect this to be true of all environmental effects, unless they do permanent damage, or there is some critical window for learning. Stability over a person's lifetime, regardless of experience, is what you'd expect of a genetic effect. Environment varies. Genetics doesn't.

squirrelicus 7y ago
That's the finding. The IQ you end up with as an adult isn't affected by your tutelage.

mcguire 7y ago

Very true. Why, in the 4th grade, my IQ was measured as 150. By the time I was 12, it had gone down to 138. Today, I'm an eggplant.

antisthenes 7y ago
I imagine regression to the mean in standardized testing is a thing as well.