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Talebs' main beef is that the system selects for drones that serve the system and can think on its terms and the question is obviously why would it not do that.

Talebs' main beef is that the system selects for drones that serve the system and can think on its terms and the question is obviously why would it not do that. All systems protect their own integrity and obviously the IQ test would further serve to protect the power structure of the people who designed those tests. And the effects of selecting for these sorts of people is obvious everywhere in a dysfunctional system which pretends to care about critical thought and different ways of thinking only to subvert those and use those to increase its own control and power... despite not being a good candidate for managing the affairs of the planet.

ohaideredevs 7y ago
Raw capability has nothing to do with how that capability is applied. IQ is supposed to measure raw capability. Especially tests such as Raven's which focus on fluid intelligence.
- devoply 7y ago
  Techne, in terms of what makes people good tools to do certain type of technical work. The other part is schooling in which grades indicate how good of a tool the person actually makes.
  - ohaideredevs 7y ago
    I am not fully following what you are saying. Let's see if we actually disagree. Intelligence has two parts: 1. Crystallized intelligence - essentially your knowledge / what you have memorized (including useful heuristics, experience, etc). This can grow throughout your lifetime. 2. Fluid intelligence - in reality, this is basically defined as your "working memory", which is how many pieces of distinct information you can maintain in short term memory and work with. The magic number is 7(+-2). Anyway, this influences your ability to learn, since if you keep in mind what you just read/heard, you can connect the dots. Pieces to memorize can be grouped to make them easier to work with. As a result, an expert in a field will have pieces grouped and organized in long term memory, and WILL appear more intelligent than an amateur in the field, when discussing that field. In my, subjective, experience this can be enough to work in one field. When you want to be a Renaissance man, or compete at an extremely high level, low IQ chokes you. Even a difference of 10 points between 120 and 130 chokes you. Hopefully this wasn't a rant and you know what I mean.
macspoofing 7y ago
>All systems protect their own integrity Do they? Where are you getting that from? >and obviously the IQ test would further serve to protect the power structure of the people who designed those tests. Not so obviously. No matter what IQ is, it was neither designed nor implemented as a way to 'protect the power structure'. This idiotic power hierarchy metaphor is completely overused by certain ideological sectors. Not everything is best understood as power hierarchy. Not everything is a power hierarchy. When you claim everything is a power hierarchy it is a cognitive crutch not unlike conspiracy theorists seeing the work of the illuminati behind every socio-political event.
- devoply 7y ago
  > Do they? Where are you getting that from? It's either a tautology or follows logically take your pick, a system is a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network. System integrity is the state of a system where it is performing its intended functions without being degraded or impaired by changes or disruptions in its internal or external environments. Systems that do not protect their integrity cease to exist or they change in unpredictable ways and become uncontrollable. > it was neither designed nor implemented as a way to 'protect the power structure'. It is designed by someone to figure out if someone else is worthy in a certain way. That in itself alludes to some sort of power structure. Also the conspiracy theory libel is a logical fallacy.
  - macspoofing 7y ago
    >It's either a tautology or follows logically take your pick ... Systems that do not protect their integrity cease to exist or they change in unpredictable ways and become uncontrollable. OK, let's go with a tautology, in which case it is a meaningless red herring to your argument of power hierarchies. If every system protects its integrity (even those not based on these mythical power hierarchies), then it doesn't really introduce anything interesting to your argument. Truthfully however 'the System' you're referring to is ill defined. It could mean anything. >It is designed by someone to figure out if someone else is worthy in a certain way No. It was designed to identify children who are struggling in school. That was the original goal. That is not the same thing as 'figuring out if someone else is worthy', though I'm sure you can contort the language to fit this. It has since been used in a wide variety of contexts, all of which are varied and differ in the target of study and purpose of study. >That in itself alludes to some sort of power structure. No. It doesn't. Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. >Also the conspiracy theory libel is a logical fallacy. You're demonstrating the same kind of - if all you have a is a hammer, everything is a nail - type of thinking. You've alluded to the fact that everything can be distilled down to some power hierarchy. That's a tell-tale sign you've come down the ideological rabbit hole. Here are other ideological cognitive crunches: - Libertarians see everything as a struggle between collectivism and individualism. - Communists see everything as a struggle between bourgeoisie and the proletariat. - Feminists see everything as a struggle against patriarchy. - Conspiracy theorists see everything as a struggle against the Illuminati (or some shadowy cabal) The world is complicated. Ideology helps to make sense of it by introducing useful abstractions ... but only to a point. As much as ideology helps, it can also be a crutch.

ohaideredevs 7y ago

Raw capability has nothing to do with how that capability is applied. IQ is supposed to measure raw capability. Especially tests such as Raven's which focus on fluid intelligence.

devoply 7y ago
Techne, in terms of what makes people good tools to do certain type of technical work. The other part is schooling in which grades indicate how good of a tool the person actually makes.
- ohaideredevs 7y ago
  I am not fully following what you are saying. Let's see if we actually disagree. Intelligence has two parts: 1. Crystallized intelligence - essentially your knowledge / what you have memorized (including useful heuristics, experience, etc). This can grow throughout your lifetime. 2. Fluid intelligence - in reality, this is basically defined as your "working memory", which is how many pieces of distinct information you can maintain in short term memory and work with. The magic number is 7(+-2). Anyway, this influences your ability to learn, since if you keep in mind what you just read/heard, you can connect the dots. Pieces to memorize can be grouped to make them easier to work with. As a result, an expert in a field will have pieces grouped and organized in long term memory, and WILL appear more intelligent than an amateur in the field, when discussing that field. In my, subjective, experience this can be enough to work in one field. When you want to be a Renaissance man, or compete at an extremely high level, low IQ chokes you. Even a difference of 10 points between 120 and 130 chokes you. Hopefully this wasn't a rant and you know what I mean.

macspoofing 7y ago

>All systems protect their own integrity Do they? Where are you getting that from? >and obviously the IQ test would further serve to protect the power structure of the people who designed those tests. Not so obviously. No matter what IQ is, it was neither designed nor implemented as a way to 'protect the power structure'. This idiotic power hierarchy metaphor is completely overused by certain ideological sectors. Not everything is best understood as power hierarchy. Not everything is a power hierarchy. When you claim everything is a power hierarchy it is a cognitive crutch not unlike conspiracy theorists seeing the work of the illuminati behind every socio-political event.

devoply 7y ago
> Do they? Where are you getting that from? It's either a tautology or follows logically take your pick, a system is a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network. System integrity is the state of a system where it is performing its intended functions without being degraded or impaired by changes or disruptions in its internal or external environments. Systems that do not protect their integrity cease to exist or they change in unpredictable ways and become uncontrollable. > it was neither designed nor implemented as a way to 'protect the power structure'. It is designed by someone to figure out if someone else is worthy in a certain way. That in itself alludes to some sort of power structure. Also the conspiracy theory libel is a logical fallacy.
- macspoofing 7y ago
  >It's either a tautology or follows logically take your pick ... Systems that do not protect their integrity cease to exist or they change in unpredictable ways and become uncontrollable. OK, let's go with a tautology, in which case it is a meaningless red herring to your argument of power hierarchies. If every system protects its integrity (even those not based on these mythical power hierarchies), then it doesn't really introduce anything interesting to your argument. Truthfully however 'the System' you're referring to is ill defined. It could mean anything. >It is designed by someone to figure out if someone else is worthy in a certain way No. It was designed to identify children who are struggling in school. That was the original goal. That is not the same thing as 'figuring out if someone else is worthy', though I'm sure you can contort the language to fit this. It has since been used in a wide variety of contexts, all of which are varied and differ in the target of study and purpose of study. >That in itself alludes to some sort of power structure. No. It doesn't. Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. >Also the conspiracy theory libel is a logical fallacy. You're demonstrating the same kind of - if all you have a is a hammer, everything is a nail - type of thinking. You've alluded to the fact that everything can be distilled down to some power hierarchy. That's a tell-tale sign you've come down the ideological rabbit hole. Here are other ideological cognitive crunches: - Libertarians see everything as a struggle between collectivism and individualism. - Communists see everything as a struggle between bourgeoisie and the proletariat. - Feminists see everything as a struggle against patriarchy. - Conspiracy theorists see everything as a struggle against the Illuminati (or some shadowy cabal) The world is complicated. Ideology helps to make sense of it by introducing useful abstractions ... but only to a point. As much as ideology helps, it can also be a crutch.