5 ms·

There does seem to be a mild correlation with outside temperature. Could some places just be "too hot to think"?

fastball 7y ago
Australia/SE Asia is very hot, as is Mexico/SA.
defertoreptar 7y ago
I wonder if it could be the difference between areas that rely more on agriculture vs areas that must rely on their tertiary sector (where education counts for more).
throwaway123x2 7y ago
I would correlate it more with food security than with heat.
wsc981 7y ago
> There does seem to be a mild correlation with outside temperature. Could some places just be "too hot to think"? Well ... perhaps in some way: Since 1991 there has been the presumption that persistent heat affects the IQ over generations. It was initially assumed that living in lower temperatures requires a higher physical fitness and causes higher social demands. Richard Lynn, a professor at the University of Ulster in Northern Ireland, also assumes that the colder temperatures increase the brain volume. Whether brain size is at all related to intelligence, is controversial. In general, a hot climate is considered a disadvantage for the development of intelligence. The reason is nowadays primarily seen in the high physical energy demand and the resulting stress. Source: https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php Another study suggests infectious diseases might be a cause for lower IQ scores. In that case, perhaps infectious diseases spread more easily in hot climates? See: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-is-average-iq-higher-in-some-places/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-is-average-iq...
tw1010 7y ago
We can keep playing the "maybe there are other factors besides DNA that could explain small differences in IQ"-game until the cow comes home. The sad thing is that eventually we'll probably find some genuine correlation between genes and some measure of intelligence (controlling for every other conceivable factor). (Maybe we won't, but I wouldn't bet on it in a prediction market.) Not sure what'll happen once that day comes.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  > The sad thing is that eventually we'll probably find some genuine correlation between genes and some measure of intelligence (controlling for every conceivable other factor). Why is this sad, and isn't it obvious that we already have? I mean, it's been well proven that humans are smarter than many other species, even when those animals are raised in "human-like" conditions. It seems completely obvious to me that, since we see genetic-based differences even within species in numerous traits (height, strength, speed, memorization ability, etc.), why would we think intelligence would be any different.
  - fastball 7y ago
    It's sad because it's great fodder for racists that want to divide human society based on race.
    - foldr 7y ago
      You shouldn't conflate genetic factors with racial factors. Race has nothing much to do with genes, so the existence of genetic factors influencing IQ does not entail anything about IQ and race.
sunseb 7y ago
There is this theory that life in the Northern Hemisphere is very hard (because of Winter), so there may have been some kind of a harder natural selection there in the past. People in the North seem to be obsessed with building, working and thinking about the future ("I need to be ready, winter is coming").
octohedron 7y ago
Singapore is first in the world and it's right in the equator, while Hong Kong, the other one at the top has a humid subtropical climate. Are you perhaps from a cold area? That would easily explain your bias.
- zazaraka 7y ago
  Both Singapore and Hong Kong are basically cities. That's like talking about the IQ of London/New York. They also have extensive air-conditioning.
  - fastball 7y ago
    Singapore and Hong Kong were cities before AC existed.
    - octohedron 7y ago
      Wasting your time with these pseudo-scientists, all they want to hear is that their cold weather genes are superior.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      Was anyone IQ testing their populations for academic research before AC existed, though? I'm skeptical of the IQ heat idea - it'd be readily demonstrable if it existed - but the numbers available, particularly outside the US/Europe, are largely current/recent, not from pre-1950s.
      - octohedron 7y ago
        What are you talking about? Italians score higher than northern Europe in all IQ tests. Maybe you have northern Europe ancestry and can't accept you're not the best white super advanced human? :(
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        1. I don't believe the heat idea. Nor the superior genes one. 2. That doesn't make "these cities existed without air conditioning" a good argument in this thread. Yes, they did. No, that doesn't debunk the heat/IQ linkage idea.
EForEndeavour 7y ago
From a glance through the list, there's also a decent correlation with socioeconomic development, which is to be expected. There's a ton of multicollinearity going on.
CBLT 7y ago
This was the accepted scientific understanding circa 1900. Interestingly enough, this was used by early activists to argue that global warming is a real phenomenon. The logic went: since people indigenous to tropics cannot have advanced civilization, and Angkor Wat is clearly a product of advanced civilization, then Cambodia wasn't tropical when it was built.[0] [0] https://newleftreview.org/issues/II97/articles/mike-davis-the-coming-desert https://newleftreview.org/issues/II97/articles/mike-davis-th...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

Australia/SE Asia is very hot, as is Mexico/SA.

I wonder if it could be the difference between areas that rely more on agriculture vs areas that must rely on their tertiary sector (where education counts for more).

throwaway123x2 7y ago

I would correlate it more with food security than with heat.

wsc981 7y ago

> There does seem to be a mild correlation with outside temperature. Could some places just be "too hot to think"? Well ... perhaps in some way: Since 1991 there has been the presumption that persistent heat affects the IQ over generations. It was initially assumed that living in lower temperatures requires a higher physical fitness and causes higher social demands. Richard Lynn, a professor at the University of Ulster in Northern Ireland, also assumes that the colder temperatures increase the brain volume. Whether brain size is at all related to intelligence, is controversial. In general, a hot climate is considered a disadvantage for the development of intelligence. The reason is nowadays primarily seen in the high physical energy demand and the resulting stress. Source: https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php Another study suggests infectious diseases might be a cause for lower IQ scores. In that case, perhaps infectious diseases spread more easily in hot climates? See: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-is-average-iq-higher-in-some-places/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-is-average-iq...

tw1010 7y ago

We can keep playing the "maybe there are other factors besides DNA that could explain small differences in IQ"-game until the cow comes home. The sad thing is that eventually we'll probably find some genuine correlation between genes and some measure of intelligence (controlling for every other conceivable factor). (Maybe we won't, but I wouldn't bet on it in a prediction market.) Not sure what'll happen once that day comes.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
> The sad thing is that eventually we'll probably find some genuine correlation between genes and some measure of intelligence (controlling for every conceivable other factor). Why is this sad, and isn't it obvious that we already have? I mean, it's been well proven that humans are smarter than many other species, even when those animals are raised in "human-like" conditions. It seems completely obvious to me that, since we see genetic-based differences even within species in numerous traits (height, strength, speed, memorization ability, etc.), why would we think intelligence would be any different.
- fastball 7y ago
  It's sad because it's great fodder for racists that want to divide human society based on race.
  - foldr 7y ago
    You shouldn't conflate genetic factors with racial factors. Race has nothing much to do with genes, so the existence of genetic factors influencing IQ does not entail anything about IQ and race.

sunseb 7y ago

There is this theory that life in the Northern Hemisphere is very hard (because of Winter), so there may have been some kind of a harder natural selection there in the past. People in the North seem to be obsessed with building, working and thinking about the future ("I need to be ready, winter is coming").

octohedron 7y ago

Singapore is first in the world and it's right in the equator, while Hong Kong, the other one at the top has a humid subtropical climate. Are you perhaps from a cold area? That would easily explain your bias.

zazaraka 7y ago
Both Singapore and Hong Kong are basically cities. That's like talking about the IQ of London/New York. They also have extensive air-conditioning.
- fastball 7y ago
  Singapore and Hong Kong were cities before AC existed.
  - octohedron 7y ago
    Wasting your time with these pseudo-scientists, all they want to hear is that their cold weather genes are superior.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Was anyone IQ testing their populations for academic research before AC existed, though? I'm skeptical of the IQ heat idea - it'd be readily demonstrable if it existed - but the numbers available, particularly outside the US/Europe, are largely current/recent, not from pre-1950s.
    - octohedron 7y ago
      What are you talking about? Italians score higher than northern Europe in all IQ tests. Maybe you have northern Europe ancestry and can't accept you're not the best white super advanced human? :(
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        1. I don't believe the heat idea. Nor the superior genes one. 2. That doesn't make "these cities existed without air conditioning" a good argument in this thread. Yes, they did. No, that doesn't debunk the heat/IQ linkage idea.

EForEndeavour 7y ago

From a glance through the list, there's also a decent correlation with socioeconomic development, which is to be expected. There's a ton of multicollinearity going on.

CBLT 7y ago

This was the accepted scientific understanding circa 1900. Interestingly enough, this was used by early activists to argue that global warming is a real phenomenon. The logic went: since people indigenous to tropics cannot have advanced civilization, and Angkor Wat is clearly a product of advanced civilization, then Cambodia wasn't tropical when it was built.[0] [0] https://newleftreview.org/issues/II97/articles/mike-davis-the-coming-desert https://newleftreview.org/issues/II97/articles/mike-davis-th...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]