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Bethesda removing mandatory login from Doom re-releases after fan backlash
- crims0n 7y agoGood. There is absolutely no reason to have a mandatory login on a game you purchase and run locally, especially considering it has no online features.
- mywittyname 7y agoEspecially an open source game which could be had on the same device without mandatory login.
- andybak 7y agoThe engine is open source. The levels aren't.
- davesmith1983 7y agoAccording to MVG on youtube the Doom 1&2 engine is Unity. I have no idea why that is the case though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh7nZ9t2eJA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh7nZ9t2eJA Also apparently they have slowed down the Midi Soundtrack as well.
- jonny_eh 7y agoProbably to make porting easier. Keep in mind they can't use all the homebrew GPL ports, since they don't own that source code, so can't strip the GPL from them.
- liability 7y agoWhat would stop them from releasing a GPLv2 port, with source, other than their own stubbornness? The Switch's DRM would preclude GPLv3, but not v2, no? Also it would be easy for them to hire somebody to write a new port the right way with whatever license they please. It's freakin Doom!
- davesmith1983 7y agoI know people don't like Bethesda (neither do I) but generally there is normally solid reasons why companies don't do such things. A lot of the time there is other stuff in that source code or attached to the source code that they can't release. They could have a bunch of internal signing keys etc (which may need to embedded in the source). Also Nintendo, Sony etc may specifically not allow GPL code on their platform. There could be a bunch of very good reasons we may never be privy to.
- liability 7y agoI find these theories difficult to square with previous releases of Doom on locked platforms like iOS apparently being proper source ports. Even if it's not a community engine, they should have access somewhere to code with agreeable licensing. Or at least, they should be capable of hiring a community source-port developer to throw together a new source port based only off the original code (which Bethesda would be free to license as they see fit, on account of owning the copyright.) My personal theory is Bethesda doesn't respect the franchise and turned over responsibility of it to somebody young who probably had plenty of experience with Unity, but little to no experience working on an engine written in C.
- davesmith1983 7y agoThe fact of the matter is that neither of us know.
- liability 7y agoI don't know, which is why I said I'd like for them to explain it. In the meantime, they will not enjoy the benefit of doubt from me, and I don't think you should give it to them either. We're not operating in a vacuum here, Bethesda already has a well earned negative reputation.
- seba_dos1 7y agoPorting Doom to Unity on a platform where a perfectly fine port of SDL already exists can't really make it much easier.
- j-c-hewitt 7y agoOG Doom has online features, though.
- strictnein 7y agoDoes IPX support count as online features? No TCP/IP in the original Doom/Doom2. Just IPX and Modem/Serial.
- rowanG077 7y agoOf course that counts. Why wouldn't that count. Not the entire internet is TCP/IP.
- strictnein 7y agoYou can't do broadcast IPX gaming across the Internet.
- j-c-hewitt 7y agoNever had as much fun with online gaming as I did over modem direct connection with one other kid!
- jchw 7y agoWait, that really happened? I saw a YouTube video crop up and immediately laughed thinking it was satire. You really can’t make this stuff up. That really destroys any goodwill that people may have felt with this release. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt but I really doubt they “accidentally“ made it mandatory to sign up for their new service. That would’ve been really annoying for development/testing.
- rasz 7y agoWhat goodwill? You might want to look up owner of Bethesda, a copyright trading company run by a lawyer.
- cgb223 7y agoThe last game they made for Doom was 2016 right? So they’re doing this 3 years later?? I’m amazed people haven’t moved on to other games
- mattwad 7y agoNo, it looks like this is about the re-release that just came out over the weekend of the original games.
- LegitShady 7y agoThis is not referring to Doom 2016 (which was a great game). This was a new Doom 25 Year anniversary thing with Doom 1, 2, and 3. The re-release included non-optional requirement to sign into their online service.
- cgb223 7y agoOh had no idea they did that! So strange they’d make you sign in for Doom...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- olliej 7y agoI am so sick of this “you must be online for this single player game” nonsense. The number of times I’ve lost a connection while running Hitman and so lost half the game is absurd.
- Freak_NL 7y agoThe Hitman reboot and its sequel are great games, but the crap surrounding it is disheartening. Figuring out which version of Hitman 2 you should buy on Steam when you already own Hitman 1 requires a flow chart just to understand the different packages, expansion passes, gold and silver collections, and what have you.
- freehunter 7y agoI wanted to play Hitman on the Xbox recently. It's on Game Pass, so I set it to download and then left for the day expecting to have the game ready to play that night. Nope. The Hitman download only has one level. You need to download every level separately (even though they're all included with Game Pass) and they're all absolutely gigantic. I'm not sure what's up with the file size but it's out of control. You can buy the complete edition of Hitman, and it clocks in at 172GB. The Halo Master Chief Collection is only 70GB and it includes four full complete games. Fantastic game, but they really do make it hard to actually play.
- Freak_NL 7y agoHmm, 130 GB in Steam (running on Linux via Proton). Huh, that is pretty big.
- unethical_ban 7y agoMalice vs. incompetence, and so on. Their excuse is believable - that they had a rewards program and that it wasn't meant to be globally required. Or is it? How did that get through testing? Were all the testers Slayers Club members? Anyway, I'm glad the backlash worked.
- smacktoward 7y ago> How did that get through testing? This is Bethesda we’re talking about, remember. The miracle would be a bug not getting through testing.
- eswat 7y agoI’m leaning towards malice based on the original error message if you tried to play the game without an account. [1] > A Bethesda.net account is required to play this title. Please connect to the internet to continue. [1] https://twitter.com/MoeGamer/status/1154822321586094080/photo/1 https://twitter.com/MoeGamer/status/1154822321586094080/phot...
- jetrink 7y ago> Bethesda suggested there had actually been a slip-up when implementing BethesdaNet support, and that logging in should have been an optional step from the get-go. Also, prior to the re-release, Bethesda accidentally removed Doom and Doom II from the libraries of people who had purchased the games previously on Xbox 360. 1. https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/07/27/bethesda-is-fixing-that-unintentional-doom-doom-ii-xbox-glitch https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/07/27/bethesda-is-fixing-t...
- ChrisSD 7y agoBethesda seem very accident prone.
- metalliqaz 7y agoyeah, "accident"
- hi5eyes 7y agohttps://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/12/bethesdas-attempt-to-fix-a-fallout-76-blunder-leaks-angry-shoppers-pid/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/12/bethesdas-attempt-to-... https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-players-finally-got-their-canvas-bags-from-bethesda/ https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-players-finally-got-their... Bethesda seem very 'shitty' i think is the word you're looking for
- ergothus 7y agoWhile others will be sarcastic (perhaps rightfully so), I think it's fair to actually point this out. Bethesda clearly doesn't do a lot of checks. Consider some of their Fallout 76 gaffes - including have no public test server. One does not launch an online game with an expected massive audience and just "forget" that step (which has hurt them several times already) unless utterly lack any processes and any culture that would have caught it. Now, I know Bethesda is multiple studios and I know nothing about their operations beyond that, but when the reputation is of a company that delivers great story in notoriously buggy products, and trends don't seem to be improving, that says SOMETHING about priorities, right?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- shmerl 7y agoAren't Doom games available on GOG? Just buy them DRM-free.
- Waterluvian 7y agoNot on the Nintendo Switch.
- davesmith1983 7y agoWell if you unlock the switch there is of course a port.
- Buttons840 7y agoAs mentioned not on the switch. The PC has better than a DRM free version though, the source code of the original engine was released and there are several updates that keep the game feeling modern. Only the game art must be purchased legally. If interested look up "zdoom", which is the updated engine I used and remember.
- AsusFan 7y agoAnd once you get bored of plain old DooM maps, there's Oblige: http://oblige.sourceforge.net/ http://oblige.sourceforge.net/
- shmerl 7y agoSwitch is DRMed over the top already, so complaining about more DRM there is kind of futile. Those who prefer DRM-free games should use something else to begin with. Something like Smach-Z can be interesting for handheld use case. It can run games from GOG, either natively (Linux versions) or in Wine or DosBox.
- icelancer 7y agoRe: SMACHZ, it's almost definitely a scam. Here's one of many videos showing how it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d00I_3THLBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d00I_3THLBQ
- HNisCurated 7y agoAnother nail in the coffin for AAA developers. When indie developers encourage you to crack their game and make mods you get a different community. Bethesda is too old, it's become to big and famous, it's yet another soulless game studio. I'll stick with my sub 10$ indie games. I haven't gotten bored yet.
- theandrewbailey 7y agoBethesda Softworks (the publisher) has been rather lawyer happy over the past few years. They went after Mojang over the word Scrolls. Bethesda Game Studios (the developer) isn't much better. As if poor writing and re-using a rotten engine isn't bad enough, they've routinely dabbled in paid mods.
- erk__ 7y agoIt should probably be noted that Bethesda Softworks is owned by Zenimax. Though Zenimax was founded by the founders of Bethesda. Zenimaxes board concist of a Lawyer, a former baseball player, a real estate manager and a movie producer. They have again and again made poor choices when it comes to drm, but they have removed Denvou from both Doom and Rage 2 some time after release.
- liability 7y ago> "a former baseball player," Now you have me wondering about the "former baseball player joins the corporate world and feels lost in it" subplot of Prey 2017 (published by Bethesda.)
- davesmith1983 7y agoIt is a real shame because I played the hell out of Skyrim, Oblivion and Doom 2016 (one of the best games to come out in the last 5 years) and own several copies of each. I actively avoided almost everything from them since and I am just hoping they don't ruin Doom Eternal with the nonsense, Id is developing it and soo far they haven't been affected by much of the usual Bethesda bullshit.
- liability 7y agoAre they going to explain why they butchered Doom with the Unity engine? It's not like there is any shortage of programmers eager and able to create yet another proper Doom port. It really feels like Bethesda threw some young intern at the project who lacked cultural context for Doom and therefore didn't treat it with respect. Edit for source: https://mobile.twitter.com/noteinso/status/1154809291641151488 https://mobile.twitter.com/noteinso/status/11548092916411514...
- strictnein 7y agoWait, what? Where do you see that Doom was ported to Unity for this?
- YaxelPerez 7y agohttps://twitter.com/BasedDrWorm/status/1155153230038540293 https://twitter.com/BasedDrWorm/status/1155153230038540293
- Longlius 7y agoSwitch games have been dumpable for a while and it's immediately apparent when looking at the internals: https://twitter.com/noteinso/status/1154809291641151488?s=09 https://twitter.com/noteinso/status/1154809291641151488?s=09
- strictnein 7y agoYuck. This is more egregious than requiring the login, imo.
- ascagnel_ 7y agoEither way, they definitely managed to somehow _decrease_ the graphical fidelity of a 25+-year-old game -- the original featured some basic lighting effects (notably, the floor and ceiling would shade further from the player) that have been removed in this remake.
- koverda 7y ago
- peteretep 7y agoWe really need to get to a point where companies see holding identifiable data as a big risk that they only want to undertake if absolutely needed
- tictoc 7y agoI agree. I recall Reddit would just require a user id and a password to use their site. I liked that model. I guess they eventually goaded you into giving their email, but there are alternatives to password recovery than a forget my email link.
- JeremyBanks 7y agoSuch as?
- jethro_tell 7y agostoring the password in plain text so you can just find it in a data breach when you loose your password.
- Deimorz 7y agoOn Tildes, I let people add a recovery email address for their account, but I hash it (with Argon2), and if anyone needs to do an account recovery they have to send an email requesting it from that address, including their username. Then I hash the sending email address and only send reset info back if it matches the stored hash for the account. There are still some minor issues with doing it that way, but it's much, much better than storing plaintext email addresses. I don't know of any other sites doing it this way, but I wouldn't be surprised if others have thought of the same method.
- Deimorz 7y agoGiving an email on reddit is still technically optional, but they try to make that unclear. During registration you can just leave the email field blank and click "Next" to skip giving one, even though there's no indication at all that it's optional. The site also annoys you constantly now to add an email address, but you can ignore or adblock that.
- geddy 7y agoThis is great news, and I'm happy that the backlash worked. I was furious to find out a 20+ year old game was implemented with DRM. So much so that I requested a refund from Nintendo who notoriously does not do refunds on eShop purchases. It actually worked, and I was refunded my $5 yesterday. Couldn't be happier to have voted with my wallet. Hopefully others did that too. I won't be re-purchasing DOOM either because I no longer want my money in Bethesda's pockets. I _will_ however continue playing my $2 copy from GOG that I grabbed shortly after requesting the refund.
- metalliqaz 7y agoThey claim it's not DRM, but a way to participate in their Slayers Club promotion. That being said, Bethesda has pretty much spent any goodwill they may have had lately, so maybe you can't take them at their word. Doesn't Switch provide its own DRM?
- dleslie 7y agoYes, you cannot easily side-load your own code onto the Switch. It's definitely a locked-down platform.
- distantsounds 7y agoThis isn't true. The original Switch release can sideload apps. Currently, firmware restrictions exist but it's still doable. https://nh-server.github.io/switch-guide/ https://nh-server.github.io/switch-guide/ And of course, DOOM was ported: https://github.com/lantus/chocolate-doom-nx https://github.com/lantus/chocolate-doom-nx
- komali2 7y agoOk, but it's not easy, just as the OP said, and it's extremely risky. If you forget to turn off your wifi, that's a perma-ban from all Nintendo online services. It is an extremely locked down platform. Nintendo does not want you sideloading stuff onto it. Your OP didn't say it's impossible, they said it's hard, and they said it's locked down. Both things are true. Nintendo is infamous for battling side-loading harder than anybody else. This has been a battle for ages, one I've been following since at least the DSPhat. And look through their history - a big reason they were so successful in the second resurgence of gaming (after the failure of the Atari era) is possibly because of how locked-down their platform was, how stringent their requirements were when it came to games. Game developers hated it because Nintendo would go so far as to control how many cartridges could be on a given store's shelves (stores hated it too, because money was being left on the table every time they sold out, which was almost always). Long story short, just cause hackers keep winning the fight against Nintendo, doesn't mean their platforms aren't locked down.
- nilkn 7y agoFor what it's worth, the port also runs really poorly on the Switch. It feels like there's a lot of input lag and the frame rate is all over the place. It's not unplayable but it required me to spend the first 30 minutes just learning to compensate for the poor performance and lag. You'd probably get a better experience actually playing it back in the mid-90s.
- binarycrusader 7y agoThat's because it's very likely using the software renderer: https://twitter.com/fabynou/status/1155042578544263168?s=20 https://twitter.com/fabynou/status/1155042578544263168?s=20 As the copyright holder, Bethesda could have shipped one of the vastly improved open source versions such as the ones used for iOS, so it's puzzling why they're (apparently) using the software renderer.
- AlexandrB 7y agoApparently the iOS version has been updated to the Unity port too.
- binarycrusader 7y agoFascinating speculation in that thread: ...running DOOM engine inside Unity, render to a 320x200 texture and make Unity render that texture to the screen with orthogonal projection? Given that Carmack and most of the original personnel left, I suppose it's unsurprising.
- m-p-3 7y agoBarbaric..
- sincerely 7y agoThe soundtrack has also been slowed down for some reason.
- distantsounds 7y agoThey aren't using the original DOOM engine, they ported the entire game to Unity.
- rafaelvasco 7y agoJust reading 'mandatory login' makes me cringe. It's not always possible or sensible but please gamedev companies: - Assume offline first, instead of online first. - Never ever put a mandatory login no matter what, DRM or not.
- jdlyga 7y agoIt reminds me of the old days where certain Xbox Live Arcade games wouldn't work unless you were online and logged in. Back then you didn't always have a WiFi connection or an ethernet hookup, so it prevented you from playing sometimes.
- molticrystal 7y agoAs long as we are talking doom, what is the most interesting device you've played it on? I'll start. An early generation Ipod with the 3rd party Rockbox OS had a doom port for it. It also played NES and GB games.