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ZCash (from what I can understand of it) seems like it could be the basis to use. Suppose everyone sets up a wallet and they get paid one ZVoteCoin at voter reg

ZCash (from what I can understand of it) seems like it could be the basis to use. Suppose everyone sets up a wallet and they get paid one ZVoteCoin at voter registration. Then they go home and do a shielded transaction (you didn't even mention anonymity) to their favored candidate. Their wallet should tell them that the transaction went through.

avmich 7y ago
I'm afraid there are too many ways this may not work, but I'd be more interested in figuring if there are other similarly fundamental problems to online voting.
- RL_Quine 7y ago
  https://www.usenix.org/legacy/events/sec08/tech/full_papers/adida/adida.pdf https://www.usenix.org/legacy/events/sec08/tech/full_papers/... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Voting You might want to look at some of the issues solved by Helios. Its showing its age at this point but the fundamental design goals are the same as if it were designed today.
RL_Quine 7y ago
Your solution doesn't provide a solution to the core problem. How do you identify that voters have a vote, and people that shouldn't have a vote didn't vote.
- orblivion 7y ago
  > How do you identify that voters have a vote The voters can see that their own transaction went through. Administrators (and everyone else) can count total votes cast at the end of the elections by the balances of the candidates' wallets. That's at least as good as paper ballots in this specific respect. > and people that shouldn't have a vote didn't vote. The voter's wallet can be tied to the voter's registration. Again, at least as good as what we have now, in this specific respect. I think I've just made a more elaborated restatement of what I already said. Could you identify a specific hole in my system? You could point to voting software _in general_ being a bad idea, and that's fair enough. But it doesn't sound like that's what you were saying.
  - acdha 7y ago
    > The voters can see that their own transaction went through. How do you prevent vote selling and coercion?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - orblivion 7y ago
      Yeah I can't solve that part :-P Is this what people mean by "the identification problem"? I must have misunderstood.
    - hanniabu 7y ago
      I don't believe they'll be able to prove they voted for a candidate without giving away their keys.
      - orblivion 7y ago
        They could sell or rent the keys though.
        hanniabu 7y ago
        This is why your key should also be used to replace your social security number.
        acdha 7y ago
        So … anyone who's ever had access to it (spouse, employer, school, etc.) can view your voting history forever and there's nothing you can do about it?
      - acdha 7y ago
        If your boss, union leader, controlling spouse, etc. tells you to vote a certain way, they would gain the ability to demand that you give them your identifier if it's public or, if not, login and show them the final vote status. This is very hard to detect and anyone proposing a blockchain needs to learn why election systems are designed the way they are first since this is not a hypothetical problem.
- lallysingh 7y ago
  Use the registration system we have now, where you give each voter a token (literally, even if you want - a qr code on a paper card) to vote? I don't know why arguing that blockchain doesn't magically solve all your problems means that it can't be used to solve any of them.
  - Donzo 7y ago
    We can even still have voting at registered polling places with judges. But, instead of throwing our votes into a magic black box, how about we put them on a blockchain and receive a way to audit our own votes?
vngzs 7y ago
This appears reasonable. Votes are anonymous. Every person gets one vote. The software basically always works. I would scrap the whole "mobile ID" thing, however. You should fill out a voter registration card to get a unique private key that is imported into your wallet.

avmich 7y ago

I'm afraid there are too many ways this may not work, but I'd be more interested in figuring if there are other similarly fundamental problems to online voting.

RL_Quine 7y ago
https://www.usenix.org/legacy/events/sec08/tech/full_papers/adida/adida.pdf https://www.usenix.org/legacy/events/sec08/tech/full_papers/... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Voting You might want to look at some of the issues solved by Helios. Its showing its age at this point but the fundamental design goals are the same as if it were designed today.

RL_Quine 7y ago

Your solution doesn't provide a solution to the core problem. How do you identify that voters have a vote, and people that shouldn't have a vote didn't vote.

orblivion 7y ago
> How do you identify that voters have a vote The voters can see that their own transaction went through. Administrators (and everyone else) can count total votes cast at the end of the elections by the balances of the candidates' wallets. That's at least as good as paper ballots in this specific respect. > and people that shouldn't have a vote didn't vote. The voter's wallet can be tied to the voter's registration. Again, at least as good as what we have now, in this specific respect. I think I've just made a more elaborated restatement of what I already said. Could you identify a specific hole in my system? You could point to voting software _in general_ being a bad idea, and that's fair enough. But it doesn't sound like that's what you were saying.
- acdha 7y ago
  > The voters can see that their own transaction went through. How do you prevent vote selling and coercion?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - orblivion 7y ago
    Yeah I can't solve that part :-P Is this what people mean by "the identification problem"? I must have misunderstood.
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    I don't believe they'll be able to prove they voted for a candidate without giving away their keys.
    - orblivion 7y ago
      They could sell or rent the keys though.
      - hanniabu 7y ago
        This is why your key should also be used to replace your social security number.
        acdha 7y ago
        So … anyone who's ever had access to it (spouse, employer, school, etc.) can view your voting history forever and there's nothing you can do about it?
    - acdha 7y ago
      If your boss, union leader, controlling spouse, etc. tells you to vote a certain way, they would gain the ability to demand that you give them your identifier if it's public or, if not, login and show them the final vote status. This is very hard to detect and anyone proposing a blockchain needs to learn why election systems are designed the way they are first since this is not a hypothetical problem.
lallysingh 7y ago
Use the registration system we have now, where you give each voter a token (literally, even if you want - a qr code on a paper card) to vote? I don't know why arguing that blockchain doesn't magically solve all your problems means that it can't be used to solve any of them.
- Donzo 7y ago
  We can even still have voting at registered polling places with judges. But, instead of throwing our votes into a magic black box, how about we put them on a blockchain and receive a way to audit our own votes?

vngzs 7y ago

This appears reasonable. Votes are anonymous. Every person gets one vote. The software basically always works. I would scrap the whole "mobile ID" thing, however. You should fill out a voter registration card to get a unique private key that is imported into your wallet.